Why can't India produce great fast bowlers like Pakistan?

[Z-Man]

If anyone considers Smalishah, a girl. I would suggest him to propose 'her' as last when I met her, she was looking to marry.

Requirement is only one :- You need to be an Imran Khan fan.

 

[Cevno]

Well done on arguing with something that wasn't said.

Even with the slight backtracking the point Xuhaib made holds true even if you change the standards(and allow whatever GF wants to allow and doesn't).

 

[weldone]

...because Indians are generally fond of quick bucks with less physical challenge...

You often see Indians excelling in areas that involve more of intelligence or skill than physical absorption. Within cricket itself, we have excelled in batting and spin bowling which are more dependant on skill than physical labor compared to fast bowling (I'm not saying that fast bowling requires less skill or intelligence by any means).

If you see a list of sports that we have excelled in (cricket, chess, shooting, hockey), they are more dependant on intelligence and skills than other more physically absorbing games like football, rugby etc. (where we have been piss-poor historically). People from some part of northern region of India (more specifically Punjab and Haryana) have excelled in physically challenging games like boxing and wrestling - and interestingly that part is geographically very close to Pakistan. We have also got world-class bowlers from that area (Kapil Dev, Amar Singh and Mohammad Nissar).

 

[Xuhaib]

...because Indians are generally fond of quick bucks with less physical challenge...

You often see Indians excelling in areas that involve more of intelligence or skill than physical absorption. Within cricket itself, we have excelled in batting and spin bowling which are more dependant on skill than physical labor compared to fast bowling (I'm not saying that fast bowling requires less skill or intelligence by any means).

If you see a list of sports that we have excelled in (cricket, chess, shooting, hockey), they are more dependant on intelligence and skills than other more physically absorbing games like football, rugby etc. (where we have been piss-poor historically). People from some part of northern region of India (more specifically Punjab and Haryana) have excelled in physically challenging games like boxing and wrestling - and interestingly that part is geographically very close to Pakistan. We have also got world-class bowlers from that area (Kapil Dev, Amar Singh and Mohammad Nissar).

you clearly know nothing about this sport.

 

[Howe_zat]

Hockey was always one of the games physically demanding enough for me to fake sicknotes to get out of, ftr.

 

[Blaze 18]

allegations of ball tampering were not always unfounded tbh

You can't deny it's greatly exaggerated, though. Imran Khan was never caught ball tampering. He won a case against Ian Botham in the early 1990s, didn't he? We only know he occasionally scratched the ball because he was honest enough to admit it. He needn't have said it at all; no-one would have ever known. Who knows how many bowlers from other teams indulged in it but didn't have the balls to say it? Wasim Akram was never caught ball tampering, to the best of my knowledge. Waqar Younis was suspended for one match or something. Big deal. Let's face it - he didn't do anything that Anderson and Broad didn't in the last England-South Africa series.

I'm not naive. I do understand that ball tampering is prevalent. I just cannot agree with GF's insinuation that ball tampering "helped Pakistani bowlers bowl the way they did". Sorry, that's tripe.

 

[Howe_zat]

You can't deny it's greatly exaggerated, though. Imran Khan was never caught ball tampering. He won a case against Ian Botham in the early 1990s, didn't he? We only know he occasionally scratched the ball because he was honest enough to admit it. He needn't have said it at all; no-one would have ever known. Who knows how many bowlers from other teams indulged in it but didn't have the balls to say it? Wasim Akram was never caught ball tampering, to the best of my knowledge. Waqar Younis was suspended for one match or something. Big deal. Let's face it - he didn't do anything that Anderson and Broad didn't in the last England-South Africa series.

I'm not naive. I do understand that ball tampering is prevalent. I just cannot agree with GF's insinuation that ball tampering "helped Pakistani bowlers bowl the way they did". Sorry, that's tripe.

So they admitted it but it didn't help them? Nah, they were better at it than that.

 

[smash84]

You can't deny it's greatly exaggerated, though. Imran Khan was never caught ball tampering. He won a case against Ian Botham in the early 1990s, didn't he? We only know he occasionally scratched the ball because he was honest enough to admit it. He needn't have said it at all; no-one would have ever known. Who knows how many bowlers from other teams indulged in it but didn't have the balls to say it? Wasim Akram was never caught ball tampering, to the best of my knowledge. Waqar Younis was suspended for one match or something. Big deal. Let's face it - he didn't do anything that Anderson and Broad didn't in the last England-South Africa series.

I'm not naive. I do understand that ball tampering is prevalent. I just cannot agree with GF's insinuation that ball tampering "helped Pakistani bowlers bowl the way they did". Sorry, that's tripe.

awta. However I had only objected to your using the words "unfounded allegations". Nice rant though.

 

[Blaze 18]

"I think you're being naive if you don't think ball tampering had a role to play in the Pakistani bowlers bowling the way the did."

This is what GF posted. Make what of it you will. The same Imran Khan has said that other teams also used to (and still do) actively indulge in ball tampering. I wonder why no one got it to swing like Wasim, Imran and Waqar did?

It's like you give 'plus five' to all students taking a test and yet most of them end up failing. Only two of them get full marks. The fact that the extra five marks helped the two is irrelevant, it helped one and all. Sorry if that's confusing, I'm feeling too sleepy to come up with a proper analogy. In a nutshell GF's post was off the mark. Pakistan's fast bowlers were just that freaking good. Ball tampering had little to do with it.

 

[Howe_zat]

I agree. I just think that ball tampering is someone almost everyone does, and GF was responding to the idea that Pakistan's bowlers never ball tampered.

You've admitted that they did it, of course it helped them, why else would they do it? It helps any bowler, especially bowlers who use reverse swing as a weapon. I don't think it's a criticism of Pakistani bowlers to say they were good at it.

 

[Furball]

Even if they did tamper with the ball on occasion, it still doesn't explain the ridiculous amount of success they had. I wonder why the likes of Mohammad Sami bombed so spectacularly, if a few scratches on the ball is all it takes to ensure success in test cricket?

Of course it doesn't, both Wasim and Waqar were ridiculously skilled bowlers who would have managed to swing a brick.

My point regarding ball tampering is simply that if a bowler (I'm not neccesarily picking on those two) can find a way of altering the condition of the ball and get it to boomerang, or get extra movement off the seam, then provided they are not using foreign substances/implements on the ball, I say let them do it.

As far as I understand reverse swing, you need one side to be shined to the max and the other side needs to be roughened up. You can do the former perfectly legally, do something to rough up the other side of the ball and you'll be hauled up in front of the match referee on ball tampering charges. IMO that's wrong.

 

[Furball]

"I think you're being naive if you don't think ball tampering had a role to play in the Pakistani bowlers bowling the way the did."

This is what GF posted. Make what of it you will. The same Imran Khan has said that other teams also used to (and still do) actively indulge in ball tampering. I wonder why no one got it to swing like Wasim, Imran and Waqar did?

It's like you give 'plus five' to all students taking a test and yet most of them end up failing. Only two of them get full marks. The fact that the extra five marks helped the two is irrelevant, it helped one and all. Sorry if that's confusing, I'm feeling too sleepy to come up with a proper analogy. In a nutshell GF's post was off the mark. Pakistan's fast bowlers were just that freaking good. Ball tampering had little to do with it.

The better analogy is Wasim and Waqar doing something a little underhand to get a couple of extra marks on a test they'd have scored 95% on anyway.

 

[salman85]

I think Blaze is a bigger supporter of Pakistan Cricket than Smalishah

 

[smash84]

I think Blaze is a bigger supporter of Pakistan Cricket than Smalishah

and you are a bigger supporter of Ijaz Butt than you are of Pakistan Cricket

 

[smash84]

but yeah I must admit that Blaze's defense of Pakistan cricket has been quite eloquent. Learn Salman. Learn

 

[Cevno]

The better analogy is Wasim and Waqar doing something a little underhand to get a couple of extra marks on a test they'd have scored 95% on anyway.

But the same applies to bowlers from any country ,doesn't it?

Jeely beans ,vaseline etc.. included.

 

[vijayjd]

But still the problem remains. SL people are just extremely similar to South Indians in their genetic makeup, and South India has a population of 15 times as SL. But we managed to produce at least 5 test quality fast medium bowlers in last 15 years, and few quite quick ones too. Eating a lot of fish may be the case when it comes to diet. Other than that I can't recall any difference between South India and SL.

I agree that South Indians are genetically similar to Sri Lankans and we also eat a lot of fish.

The taller ones here generally take up other sports like Volleyball or BasketBall. That may be one reason.

 

[Burgey]

Vegetarianism is your enemy.

 

[salman85]

Why and When did Blaze get banned?

 

[silentstriker]

Vegetarianism is your enemy.

There's like 600 million Indians who aren't. There are more non vegetarians in India than all of the cricket playing countries put together.