Why can't India produce great fast bowlers like Pakistan?

[sachin200]

There's like 600 million Indians who aren't. There are more non vegetarians in India than all of the cricket playing countries put together.

This

 

[Spikey]

one of the best performed fast bowlers in the recent Under-19 Series was an australian guy called Gurinder Sandhu who yep, indian parents.

 

[BoyBrumby]

one of the best performed fast bowlers in the recent Under-19 Series was an australian guy called Gurinder Sandhu who yep, indian parents.

Interesting.

I'm pretty sure every seam bowler with subcontinental antecedents who's played for England has roots in Pakistan. Off the top of my head: Kabir Ali, Saj Mahmood & Amjad Khan.

Every English player with Indian roots has been a slow bowler or (more often) a batsman.

Dunno what this proves, but vaguely on topic anyway.

 

[Burgey]

There's like 600 million Indians who aren't. There are more non vegetarians in India than all of the cricket playing countries put together.

Yeah but they're all batsmen.

 

[Migara]

Interesting.

I'm pretty sure every seam bowler with subcontinental antecedents who's played for England has roots in Pakistan. Off the top of my head: Kabir Ali, Saj Mahmood & Amjad Khan.

Every English player with Indian roots has been a slow bowler or (more often) a batsman.

Dunno what this proves, but vaguely on topic anyway.

Good observation. The only one with Sri Lankan roots is a fast medium bowler too.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I agree that South Indians are genetically similar to Sri Lankans and we also eat a lot of fish.

There have been new studies that point to a significant Bengali contribution to the origins of the Sinhalese.

 

[smash84]

Yeah but they're all batsmen.

 

[unam]

What do you guys think about ethnicity?Even in Pakistan, Majority of the fast bowlers are Punjabi or Pathan.

 

[Manee]

What do you guys think about ethnicity?Even in Pakistan, Majority of the fast bowlers are Punjabi or Pathan.

It is a science in its infancy. It is possible that Imran was a freak talent and a generation grew up idolizing his speed and swing. This spawned Waqar and Wasim and then, of course, you have an exponential effect. Sort of pyramid effect of sorts. But then, that is an equally vague speculative statement to make...

So yeah...I dunno.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

What do you guys think about ethnicity?Even in Pakistan, Majority of the fast bowlers are Punjabi or Pathan.

I think race (or sub-race, if you will) plays a role, but ethnicity is a different beast. There's no common gene pattern that marks Punjabis, for instance. You have the Indid Caucasoids, Iranids, Semitid Caucasoids, IndoBrachids, IndoMelanids and a few other genepools thrown into the mix. Ethnically, and to some extent, linguistically they are one; but racially it is a very varied group. And this is true either side of the border.

Pathans, I concede, are racially more homogenous and whether they are better natural athletes is up for discussion. Some of the most naturally lean and athletic sorts in India are proto-Mongoloid (some occasional Caucasoid admixture) and live high up in the hills. Needless to say, cricket isn't exactly very high up on their list of priorities.

 

[BoyBrumby]

It is a science in its infancy. It is possible that Imran was a freak talent and a generation grew up idolizing his speed and swing. This spawned Waqar and Wasim and then, of course, you have an exponential effect. Sort of pyramid effect of sorts. But then, that is an equally vague speculative statement to make...

So yeah...I dunno.

Hard to say, but Imran wasn't the first great Pakistan test seamer. Fazal Mahmood & Khan Mohammad go back to the early 50s & are probably both several cuts above any Indian quick to play before Kapil Dev.

 

[Shri]

We do produce decent test fa(s)t bowlers once every decade but they all take an arrow to the knee.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Hard to say, but Imran wasn't the first great Pakistan test seamer. Fazal Mahmood & Khan Mohammad go back to the early 50s & are probably both several cuts above any Indian quick to play before Kapil Dev.

If undivided India is considered, I'd say Mohammad Nissar (who later adopted Pakistan) and Amar Singh were as good as, if not superior to Kapil Dev.

 

[Manee]

If undivided India is considered, I'd say Mohammad Nissar (who later adopted Pakistan) and Amar Singh were as good as, if not superior to Kapil Dev.

It's all about exposure though. Television exposure, right? Or are my dates/estimations of wealth in these countries a bit off?

 

[smash84]

Hard to say, but Imran wasn't the first great Pakistan test seamer. Fazal Mahmood & Khan Mohammad go back to the early 50s & are probably both several cuts above any Indian quick to play before Kapil Dev.

Fazal and Khan Mohammad weren't too pacy though.......would be around medium to medium fast at best

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

It's all about exposure though. Television exposure, right? Or are my dates/estimations of wealth in these countries a bit off?

Pretty much so. My comment was just a response to BB on that specific point.

By and large, I do believe the visual impact of seeing an Imran charge in to bowl covered greater base than Fazal's or Khan Mohd's exploits. And that has less to do with the skills of each man, but more to do with their eras and the changing of priorities in a developing nation.

Nations immediatley post independence would be naturally more focussed on consolidation and building up a functioning structure. And that reflects in their social psyche. A classical swing bowler with his Brylcreemed hair isn't exactly going to seduce their opinions and have a pan-nation magnetism in such a clime. Abraham Maslow's theory, ftw! Imran was just a great bowler who primed in the right era, from Pakistan's perspective.

When men had stable jobs in an established setup, their kids could go out in the streets of Lahore and Karachi and try to emulate Imran Khan's style of bowling. What was a realistic dream in 1985 may have looked like a world apart in 1955 for the young, emerging nation.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, I would agree to that Outswinger. It's difficult to contribute it to race because India has also produced pace bowlers who aren't Punjabis/Pushtoons. However Pushtoons tend to be physically stronger because of the environment they come from. But it's mainly to do with the iconic images of Imran, Wasim etc coming in to bowl. For example we now have a lot of lefties in the domestic structure, all because of Wasim contributing so much to Pak cricket. I wouldn't be surprised if we get another Shoaib or Asif type of bowler in the next decade.

 

[Jacknife]

Interesting.

I'm pretty sure every seam bowler with subcontinental antecedents who's played for England has roots in Pakistan. Off the top of my head: Kabir Ali, Saj Mahmood & Amjad Khan.

Every English player with Indian roots has been a slow bowler or (more often) a batsman.

Dunno what this proves, but vaguely on topic anyway.

I've got one that goes against the grain Usman Afzaal.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

I've got one that goes against the grain Usman Afzaal.

That explains the insufficient footwork while batting. Welagedara to testify!

 

[Jacknife]

That explains the insufficient footwork while batting. Welagedara to testify!