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Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
I thought their own country also counts, or else O'Reilly is a similar case.
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No it doesn’t. Otherwise Hutton wouldn’t have made my list either.

Yes, O’Reilly is a similar case, though as mentioned with Warne there is room for argument I believe with particularly Indian/SL sides, which is why I didn’t have them on the list. Looking again at SL, they basically have to play 2 spinners with the quality of their pace options so yeah, just India.

And since there seems to be 0 consensus atm (perhaps once Ashwin/Jadeja/Bumrah retire there will be one) I don’t think Warne or O’Reilly could be considered automatic selections there either.
 
Red_Ink_Squid

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
Does Headley make the Oz XI?

Maybe as opener if you play him out of position, not sure he cracks the middle order though
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Red_Ink_Squid said:
Does Headley make the Oz XI?

Maybe as opener if you play him out of position, not sure he cracks the middle order though
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I see a wide variance in rankings for him particularly, usually between 10-20, Chappell, Ponting, Border and Waugh (the main middle order options outside Bradman and Smith - who are both generally considered top 10) also fall in that range, so he wouldn’t be considered an automatic selection imo.

Personally, I have him below all those mentioned, so no for myself too.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
You are saying that all 3 of them are better than Tendulkar? so thats why he isn't getting picked for WI's ATG XI.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Smith, Lara

Gilchrist

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Warne, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran.
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I agree mostly with this list. I rate Gavaskar ahead of Hutton though so those two are a toss up.

Kallis won't make it into an Aussie lineup on batting alone.

Garner may not make it into an Aussie or WI lineup.

Would add Hammond.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
I agree mostly with this list. I rate Gavaskar ahead of Hutton though so those two are a toss up.

Kallis won't make it into an Aussie lineup on batting alone.

Garner may not make it into an Aussie or WI lineup.

Would add Hammond.
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Yeah, I also rate Gavaskar slightly higher, but Hutton surely makes the Indian team; the same can't be said about Gavaskar and England.

Kallis makes the Aussie team as an all-rounder easily.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
capt_Luffy said:
Yeah, I also rate Gavaskar slightly higher, but Hutton surely makes the Indian team; the same can't be said about Gavaskar and England.

Kallis makes the Aussie team as an all-rounder easily.
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Not necessarily,
Miller and Davidson at 7 and 8 gives enough depth.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Coronis said:
Like I said, if it was me personally (or anyone personally) the list would look a bit different, its meant to be a list for players who would automatically make it.

I don’t personally disagree re: Smith but looking at our own poll run this year, Smith was ranked 8 and Headley 12th, I’m sure there are arguments for him not being there. Warne I already clearly explained.

What side is Sutcliffe not meant to make for you?



Again, personally I agree re: Kallis, but here even recently for example he was rated 14th and Headley 12th, plus since Windies have Sobers already his bowling would be less of a factor choosing him so not an automatic selection.

I also agree re: Wasim and Donald as I mentioned in the OP, but I believe they’re rated closely enough by people that again it wouldn’t be an automatic selection.

O’Reilly has similar arguments as Warne. as discussed.
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England.

And I agree de Kallis. While he's more valuable than Headley, the batting is close and literally all the value he beings is covered by Sobers.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Slifer said:
India vs WI

From India, WI could use: Sunil, Ashwin, Sachin (
From WI, India could use: Lara, Viv, Sobers, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose
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In all honesty, India could use any pacer better than Shami, i.e., Holding, Roberts, Walsh, Bishop, Hall, Croft if not Sylvester Clarke....
 
N

number11

State Regular
Coronis said:
Recent post inspired this. So this is assuming the rest of the XI remains the same, but if this extra player was available, they’d make the XI no question.

Batsmen:
Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Bradman, Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Sobers.

Keepers:
Gilchrist

Bowlers:
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran

So England is obviously the barrier for openers, even Gavaskar is not an automatic selection there. I would personally say Boycott (since I have him as 5th) would be a shoe-in in every other country, but I know there would be arguments re: Australia and South Africa.

Windies is the barrier for the middle order, assuming a lineup of Headley/Lara/Richards/Sobers I personally have Headley at 20 and Richards just inside the 15 but I’ve seen both ranked as top 10, so only Bradman and Tendulkar are making it from other countries. The next hardest to enter would be Australia, and even I have Viv making that side for sure (and I probably rate him the least). Smith and Hammond would be other guys who would definitely make it for me but there are arguments to make for them.

Gilly is unquestionable, there’s one keeper slot, every country would kill for Gilly and Australia wouldn’t trade him for anyone.

For pace, Windies is again the benchmark, assuming Marshall/Ambrose/Garner. I also considered the 4 pacer attack which is commonly brought up but then that makes it more complicated and meh. So I’ve put the top 6 pacers in there. After that I’ve seen wildly varying opinions on bowlers, Wasim and Donald are the most consistently rated, but I’m not 100% sure they’d be an automatic selection over Garner.

Spin, Australia wouldn’t take Murali. SL would take Warne presuming they play two spinners? I think most SL ATG XI’s do this. So that brings us to India. Looking at his overall record Warne would likely be a selection but given his record with India and how some of the ATG teams I’ve seen are trending towards spin AR (Jadeja) + Ashwin/Kumble I don’t think his selection would be automatic.
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A few more players:

Akram, Lillee for sure.

Batsmen:

Maybe Steve Smith.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Bolo. said:
I don't rate Headley that highly. Basically scored half his runs in two home series against some rather suspect English attacks. At least one of these had another different English side playing somewhere else simultaneously IIRC. I think guys from that era have to be really exceptional to be rated above more modern players in general, and him more so than others from the era.

The extra slip is going to be handy. And his bowling is much better than Sobers bowling offspin, which was the only type he could manage for half his career or so.

Of the regular picks, Garner has to be a better player than at least 2 of Donald, Procter and Pollock. And a better pick than probably 4 of Miller, Lillee, Cummins, Lindwall, Davidson. It's plausible, but not clear. Some people even pick Holding over him for WIs.
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The only area I would push back is on the notion that the only only style of bowling Sobers was able to produce during his career was off spin. It was only the over the hand stuff where he was limited to just a few years
 
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