Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

[Coronis]

Recent post inspired this. So this is assuming the rest of the XI remains the same, but if this extra player was available, they’d make the XI no question.

Batsmen:
Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Bradman, Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Sobers.

Keepers:
Gilchrist

Bowlers:
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran

So England is obviously the barrier for openers, even Gavaskar is not an automatic selection there. I would personally say Boycott (since I have him as 5th) would be a shoe-in in every other country, but I know there would be arguments re: Australia and South Africa.

Windies is the barrier for the middle order, assuming a lineup of Headley/Lara/Richards/Sobers I personally have Headley at 20 and Richards just inside the 15 but I’ve seen both ranked as top 10, so only Bradman and Tendulkar are making it from other countries. The next hardest to enter would be Australia, and even I have Viv making that side for sure (and I probably rate him the least). Smith and Hammond would be other guys who would definitely make it for me but there are arguments to make for them.

Gilly is unquestionable, there’s one keeper slot, every country would kill for Gilly and Australia wouldn’t trade him for anyone.

For pace, Windies is again the benchmark, assuming Marshall/Ambrose/Garner. I also considered the 4 pacer attack which is commonly brought up but then that makes it more complicated and meh. So I’ve put the top 6 pacers in there. After that I’ve seen wildly varying opinions on bowlers, Wasim and Donald are the most consistently rated, but I’m not 100% sure they’d be an automatic selection over Garner.

Spin, Australia wouldn’t take Murali. SL would take Warne presuming they play two spinners? I think most SL ATG XI’s do this. So that brings us to India. Looking at his overall record Warne would likely be a selection but given his record with India and how some of the ATG teams I’ve seen are trending towards spin AR (Jadeja) + Ashwin/Kumble I don’t think his selection would be automatic.

 

[kyear2]

Recent post inspired this. So this is assuming the rest of the XI remains the same, but if this extra player was available, they’d make the XI no question.

Batsmen:
Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Bradman, Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Sobers.

Keepers:
Gilchrist

Bowlers:
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran

So England is obviously the barrier for openers, even Gavaskar is not an automatic selection there. I would personally say Boycott (since I have him as 5th) would be a shoe-in in every other country, but I know there would be arguments re: Australia and South Africa.

Windies is the barrier for the middle order, assuming a lineup of Headley/Lara/Richards/Sobers I personally have Headley at 20 and Richards just inside the 15 but I’ve seen both ranked as top 10, so only Bradman and Tendulkar are making it from other countries. The next hardest to enter would be Australia, and even I have Viv making that side for sure (and I probably rate him the least). Smith and Hammond would be other guys who would definitely make it for me but there are arguments to make for them.

Gilly is unquestionable, there’s one keeper slot, every country would kill for Gilly and Australia wouldn’t trade him for anyone.

For pace, Windies is again the benchmark, assuming Marshall/Ambrose/Garner. I also considered the 4 pacer attack which is commonly brought up but then that makes it more complicated and meh. So I’ve put the top 6 pacers in there. After that I’ve seen wildly varying opinions on bowlers, Wasim and Donald are the most consistently rated, but I’m not 100% sure they’d be an automatic selection over Garner.

Spin, Australia wouldn’t take Murali. SL would take Warne presuming they play two spinners? I think most SL ATG XI’s do this. So that brings us to India. Looking at his overall record Warne would likely be a selection but given his record with India and how some of the ATG teams I’ve seen are trending towards spin AR (Jadeja) + Ashwin/Kumble I don’t think his selection would be automatic.

Really good list, I would only argue for Warne and disagree with Sutcliffe

Edit.... Think Steve Smith is there as well.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

My first thoughts are WG Grace and Chris Woakes.

 

[honestbharani]

My first thoughts are WG Grace and Chris Woakes.

Grace? Shame on you.

 

[Bolo.]

Akram has variety and batting. Clear pick for me.

Donald should get in ahead of Garner due to not being an Ambrose clone. IDK if everyone would pick him for Aus though.

I rate Kallis ahead of Headley as a bat alone. Bowling and fielding make it clear.

Warne is odd. Much better bowler than the Indians. But sucked in India, so not sure if he makes it.

Honourable mention for O'Reilly- makes every team except his own.

 

[kyear2]

Akram has variety and batting. Clear pick for me.

Donald should get in ahead of Garner due to not being an Ambrose clone. IDK if everyone would pick him for Aus though.

I rate Kallis ahead of Headley as a bat alone. Bowling and fielding make it clear.

Warne is odd. Much better bowler than the Indians. But sucked in India, so not sure if he makes it.

Honourable mention for O'Reilly- makes every team except his own.

I would agree with you, re Kallis.

One of two players, Murali being the other, who was one pull out shy of being an unanimous choice for an AT team.

 

[centurymaker]

Warne wasn't terrible "in" India.

He was just totally outplayed by India's best ever batting lineup. They were just way too good against spin. If he had been facing a different Indian lineup, his stats would be vastly different in India.

 

[Slifer]

Akram has variety and batting. Clear pick for me.

Donald should get in ahead of Garner due to not being an Ambrose clone. IDK if everyone would pick him for Aus though.

I rate Kallis ahead of Headley as a bat alone. Bowling and fielding make it clear.

Warne is odd. Much better bowler than the Indians. But sucked in India, so not sure if he makes it.

Honourable mention for O'Reilly- makes every team except his own.

Very true!!

 

[Slifer]

Warne wasn't terrible "in" India.

He was just totally outplayed by India's best ever batting lineup. They were just way too good against spin. If he had been facing a different Indian lineup, his stats would be vastly different in India.

Disagree. Warne faced India from the early 90s til the mid 2000s home and away, and in zero series did he get the better of them. It wasn't just in India. And they weren't all atg. Case in point, the 1999-00 series where Australia dominated India and indias batsmen struggled, yet Warne was horrid.

 

[Slifer]

West indies vs Australia

From Australia, WI could use: Bradman, Warne, Gilchrist.
From WI, Australia could use: Sobers and Marshall

Australia vs England

From Eng, Aus could use: Hobbs, Hutton,
From Aus, Eng could use: Bradman, Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne

WI vs Eng

From Eng, WI could use: Hobbs, Hutton, Verity
From WI, Eng could use: Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose, Viv.

And so on....

 

[kyear2]

Akram has variety and batting. Clear pick for me.

Donald should get in ahead of Garner due to not being an Ambrose clone. IDK if everyone would pick him for Aus though.

I rate Kallis ahead of Headley as a bat alone. Bowling and fielding make it clear.

Warne is odd. Much better bowler than the Indians. But sucked in India, so not sure if he makes it.

Honourable mention for O'Reilly- makes every team except his own.

O'Reilly like Sutcliffe here.

Thinking about Kallis, would he make the W.I team over Headley? Think as batsmen we date them really closely, and while I believe that Kallis is the 3rd most valuable (not best) cricketer ever, the rolls that makes him valuable are literally being filled by the only one person who did them better.

So my list is very similar

Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Smith, Lara

Gilchrist

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Warne, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran.


Kallis is close, and this will surprise and get me labelled a homer, but Garner.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Grace? Shame on you.

Missed the chance to say 'What a DisGrace!!?'

 

[capt_Luffy]

Basically, you have to be a 'Surely' better opener than Hutton (Good luck with that!)

A better middle order bat that Headley OR a close bat and a good additional bowling option:
Bradman (Duh), Sobers, Tendulkar, Smith, Richards, Lara, Hammond, Kallis

A better wicketkeeper-batsman than Gilchrist (again Good luck)

A 'much' better pacer than Garner OR offer more overall than Lindwall:
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Imran, Steyn, Ambrose, Wasim.

And again, a 'clearly' better spinner than Warne (someone really needs that luck).

 

[Coronis]

Really good list, I would only argue for Warne and disagree with Sutcliffe

Edit.... Think Steve Smith is there as well.

Like I said, if it was me personally (or anyone personally) the list would look a bit different, its meant to be a list for players who would automatically make it.

I don’t personally disagree re: Smith but looking at our own poll run this year, Smith was ranked 8 and Headley 12th, I’m sure there are arguments for him not being there. Warne I already clearly explained.

What side is Sutcliffe not meant to make for you?

Akram has variety and batting. Clear pick for me.

Donald should get in ahead of Garner due to not being an Ambrose clone. IDK if everyone would pick him for Aus though.

I rate Kallis ahead of Headley as a bat alone. Bowling and fielding make it clear.

Warne is odd. Much better bowler than the Indians. But sucked in India, so not sure if he makes it.

Honourable mention for O'Reilly- makes every team except his own.

Again, personally I agree re: Kallis, but here even recently for example he was rated 14th and Headley 12th, plus since Windies have Sobers already his bowling would be less of a factor choosing him so not an automatic selection.

I also agree re: Wasim and Donald as I mentioned in the OP, but I believe they’re rated closely enough by people that again it wouldn’t be an automatic selection.

O’Reilly has similar arguments as Warne. as discussed.

 

[Bolo.]

O'Reilly like Sutcliffe here.

Thinking about Kallis, would he make the W.I team over Headley? Think as batsmen we date them really closely, and while I believe that Kallis is the 3rd most valuable (not best) cricketer ever, the rolls that makes him valuable are literally being filled by the only one person who did them better.

So my list is very similar

Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Smith, Lara

Gilchrist

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Warne, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran.


Kallis is close, and this will surprise and get me labelled a homer, but Garner.

I don't rate Headley that highly. Basically scored half his runs in two home series against some rather suspect English attacks. At least one of these had another different English side playing somewhere else simultaneously IIRC. I think guys from that era have to be really exceptional to be rated above more modern players in general, and him more so than others from the era.

The extra slip is going to be handy. And his bowling is much better than Sobers bowling offspin, which was the only type he could manage for half his career or so.

Of the regular picks, Garner has to be a better player than at least 2 of Donald, Procter and Pollock. And a better pick than probably 4 of Miller, Lillee, Cummins, Lindwall, Davidson. It's plausible, but not clear. Some people even pick Holding over him for WIs.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Like I said, if it was me personally (or anyone personally) the list would look a bit different, its meant to be a list for players who would automatically make it.

I don’t personally disagree re: Smith but looking at our own poll run this year, Smith was ranked 8 and Headley 12th, I’m sure there are arguments for him not being there. Warne I already clearly explained.

What side is Sutcliffe not meant to make for you?



Again, personally I agree re: Kallis, but here even recently for example he was rated 14th and Headley 12th, plus since Windies have Sobers already his bowling would be less of a factor choosing him so not an automatic selection.

I also agree re: Wasim and Donald as I mentioned in the OP, but I believe they’re rated closely enough by people that again it wouldn’t be an automatic selection.

O’Reilly has similar arguments as Warne. as discussed.

England.

 

[Coronis]

England.

Read the thread title.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Read the thread title.

I thought their own country also counts, or else O'Reilly is a similar case.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

1. Gary Sobers
2. Don Bradman
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Imran Khan
5. Hobbs / Hutton ( without considering WG )
6. Viv / Lara / Headley
End of List.

 

[capt_Luffy]

1. Gary Sobers
2. Don Bradman
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Imran Khan
5. Hobbs and Hutton ( without considering WG )

End of List.

Which teams Marshall isn't making?? Or Sachin?