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What if Tendulkar was an Aussie ?

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
C_C said:
I already told someone here where to look. As i keep saying to you and the others before - i am NOT going to do your homework for you.
No, you'll just make statements then fail to provide any evidence to back them up, instead tell people "where to look"

Since you know that, surely you could provide actual links, unless these links don't actually make your case any stronger of course...

Funny how you've done that on every time you've been challenged for evidence isn't it...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
shortpitched713 said:
He basically spelled it out for you. Unless that website doesn't exist or something... :huh:
I made a quick search but couldn't find anything.

If it were a one off it might be a possible oversight, but it's happened on numerous occasions now, so I'm beginning to smell a rat...
 

Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
I made a quick search but couldn't find anything.

If it were a one off it might be a possible oversight, but it's happened on numerous occasions now, so I'm beginning to smell a rat...
I didn't know you could smell stuff over the internet!

It might be in your house...
 

PrincePeiterson

Cricket Spectator
I was not trying to make any discriminating remarks when I refered to general standards of living. General standards of living is not an insult but a fact of life. I made the coment into reply to another persons remark.

BTW was researching Tasmania and the minimum age required to leave school is 17. If you dont attend school until then then you go into youth detention centers where your kept in a prison like inviroment behind barbed wire. Like to see anyone play cricket for their country when they're in prison. :laugh:
 

C_C

International Captain
Nevermind that Aussies have rigid structure in cricket, but in all sports. It's very good that Tendulkar may/may been as good as his contemporaries, but the situation would remain that he wouldn't have gotten the chance to showcase it.
False.
Australian sports have enough instances of making exception cases for relative prodigal talents, just like any other nation.

The situation remains that he'd have had to earn his dues to get to the test squad - no shortcuts, that is just how the Aussie culture is.
And he most definately earned his dues to get into the test squad as well as FC squad.
His stellar record before FC cricket, his first FC season before Test debut etc. proves that.
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
No, you'll just make statements then fail to provide any evidence to back them up, instead tell people "where to look"

Since you know that, surely you could provide actual links, unless these links don't actually make your case any stronger of course...

Funny how you've done that on every time you've been challenged for evidence isn't it...

I already told you where the fook to look !!!
As i said to you before, i neither have the time or the inclination to spoonfeed people- i am not gonna waste my time trying to compile the data for someone else- you want to find out, go to the sources i stated, make your own effort and come back to me if you think the data is not conclusive.
I see nothing wrong in this. As in providing bibliography at the end of your essay, you dont need to quote precise part of the article that influenced your work- only quoting the name/book will do. Same scenario here.
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
C_C said:
I already told you where the fook to look !!!
As i said to you before, i neither have the time or the inclination to spoonfeed people- i am not gonna waste my time trying to compile the data for someone else- you want to find out, go to the sources i stated, make your own effort and come back to me if you think the data is not conclusive.
I see nothing wrong in this. As in providing bibliography at the end of your essay, you dont need to quote precise part of the article that influenced your work- only quoting the name/book will do. Same scenario here.
You seem to have tons of time to argue with us though.. :huh:

If I get any chance i'll look up the data but i'm at work at the moment. I don't think it's my responsibility though.

One question. where did you stumble apon this data yourself? what are some figures we can expect off the top off your head?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
C_C said:
I already told you where the fook to look !!!
As i said to you before, i neither have the time or the inclination to spoonfeed people- i am not gonna waste my time trying to compile the data for someone else- you want to find out, go to the sources i stated, make your own effort and come back to me if you think the data is not conclusive.
I see nothing wrong in this. As in providing bibliography at the end of your essay, you dont need to quote precise part of the article that influenced your work- only quoting the name/book will do. Same scenario here.
Funny that then, because when I had a look, I couldn't find anything like you suggested.

As for the essay comparison, in an essay you'd actually quote some figures from the source rather than make some generic statements.

The number of times you've been challenged to provide proof of various claims then never done so suggests one thing to me...
 

C_C

International Captain
Eclipse said:
You seem to have tons of time to argue with us though.. :huh:

If I get any chance i'll look up the data but i'm at work at the moment. I don't think it's my responsibility though.

One question. where did you stumble apon this data yourself? what are some figures we can expect off the top off your head?
You know it is not the same- most of the time i am here, i am multi-tasking and its one thing to fire off a comment after reading about it, its totally different ballgame spending time looking something up that actually requires undivided attention.
I came across the data because a) I am a Tendulkar fan and b) I visit other websites, some significantly more intellectually geared cricketing-wise than here ( eg: VTCB) These kind of topics are far more common there than here.
For example, Tendulkar batting for under-15 (at the age of 12) was averaging 100+
In his first FC season as a 15 year old, he was averaging 50+
I have already pointed towards the sources where you can verify these information should you wish.
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
Funny that then, because when I had a look, I couldn't find anything like you suggested.

As for the essay comparison, in an essay you'd actually quote some figures from the source rather than make some generic statements.

The number of times you've been challenged to provide proof of various claims then never done so suggests one thing to me...
Err no, i've never been compelled to quote verbatim from an essay-paraphrasing is fine so long as you include a note in the bibliography where you are paraphrasing from - which is exactly what i've done here.
And i can tell you didn't have a look for cricketarchive.co.uk lists complete match-by-match Test, First class, List A and ODI match performances of not just the current lot but going back decades and decades of cricket.
Had you checked there, you'd know that Tendulkar's FC record before his debut is definately not a subjective hear-say opinion but an empirical fact.
And as i said, there is evidence that categorically establishes the fact that Tendulkar's talent and performance was evident from a far younger age than any other well-established cricketer in the last 50 years of cricket.
As such, the argument is very simple : based on merit, Tendulkar is the likeliest candidate of all to play for any team in any era before the age of 20.
Therefore, if there is an example of even one player (Aussie) who made his FC debut in his teenage years, Tendulkar's case can logically claim that he'd have debuted by atleast the same age, if not a little bit earlier under similar circumstances.
 
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C_C

International Captain
pasag said:
C_C you are infuriating, your posts make me want to throw my computer out the window.
Make sure there is lotta water under your window when you toss it. Just to be doubly sure.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
False.
Australian sports have enough instances of making exception cases for relative prodigal talents, just like any other nation.
How many instances is enough? It doesn't happen regularly. Ricky Ponting was fortunate (and you can equate him with Sachin if you must) and didn't get in the test team that early - but earlier than most others because of his circumstances. Unless Sachin had the same circumstances be sure he wouldn't get in that quick.

C_C said:
And he most definately earned his dues to get into the test squad as well as FC squad.
His stellar record before FC cricket, his first FC season before Test debut etc. proves that.
I am not talking about 'dues' in relation to scoring runs, I'm talking about the time played.
 

James

Cricket Web Owner
I shouldn't have to step in here, but it looks as though I have to.

Just cut it out, if you can't discuss it in a mature fashion, don't bother at all.
 

pasag

RTDAS
C_C said:
Make sure there is lotta water under your window when you toss it. Just to be doubly sure.
Just put the computer back together. The thing about your arguments is that you take something that might be likely and present it as fact. If you were to say that out of all young prodigies out there, Tendulkar would be the most likely to debut for Australia/ FC cricket at a young age no one would (probably) disagree with you. But when you start presenting your opinion as some holier-than-thou facts, based on evidence that you refuse to specifically provide (like me saying whatever I want and giving www.wikipedia.org - go look it up) it's damn well infuriating and showing a lack of respect to those you are arguing with.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm even inclined to agree with you on this matter. It's just the way you've gone about things and the way you go about things in general that make me and I suppose many others want to throw their computers out the window.

One last thing, this part of one of your previous posts is so laughable, it's not funny:

PS: As far as Indian education system goes, if its CBSE or ICSE boards ( India has several boards), they can run rings around A level students and especially Aussie and American students. Sorry but ICSE grade 9 is more work than 1st year university and I speak from experience here.
Unless you can tell me right now that you've studied the systems in detail, either as a university course, or you've seen some study done on the structures and processes of each of the education systems, I'll just assume you're talking out of your ass, because really, I don't see how you could be qualified to make a comment like that, especially in a such a definitive manner.
 

C_C

International Captain
Unless you can tell me right now that you've studied the systems in detail, either as a university course, or you've seen some study done on the structures and processes of each of the education systems, I'll just assume you're talking out of your ass, because really, I don't see how you could be qualified to make a comment like that, especially in a such a definitive manner.
I have selected the analogy from experience - i can speak from personal experience relating to the ICSE, CBSE, A-Levels and American education system and i've interacted a fair bit with Aussie students up here.
So far, i've found the Aussie and American students to be significantly less rounded than Canadian students, the O and A level students to be a bit better rounded and ICSE/CBSE just sitting on a whole new plane.
Just to give you an idea, i did ICSE grade 9 and i had to do Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, English language, English literature, Hindi Language, hindi literature, history, geography, Bengali as third language, a course in morals, woodworking and PE.
Just to give you an idea on English literature, i had to read Tale of two cities, McBeth(original text, not re-touched) and 25 select poems from the last 350 years of English poetry. Yes, this is grade 9 i am talking about following a standard model ICSE syllabus. Ie, enough time to go to school, do homework, eat and sleep on weekdays and finishing your last homework on the bus on the way to school.
As i said, its way way above any other system i've encountered or heard of, barring perhaps the Russian system where they do crazy math at high school levels.

PS: I have treated this whole discussion as hypothetical and therefore, not factual in the first place. What i have proclaimed as facts are independent from the whole 'Tendulkar if he was an Aussie' scenario - the facts i've claimed are :

1. Tendulkar's performance before his 20th birthday was stunning : Think on this- he didnt just come out in an era of no-hoper bowlers and super-flat pitches like today where almost every team has atleast one or two 50+ averaging batsmen. Infact, only three others were averaging 50+ and those three happened to be Miandad, Viv and Border nearing the end of their careers. Ie, for a 20 year old to average 50+ in that situation is a big deal and in my personal opinion, significantly more stunning than Ponting averaging 60+ or Yousuf scoring 1800 runs in a calendar year.

2. Tendulkar's performance in his early/pre-teen years is superior to almost any other player - this too, is a fact once you realise that he was sporting Bradmansque figures while competing with kids 3-4 years his senior. This may not be a big deal in international cricket but for a 12 year old to school a 15 year old is a big deal, given that a 15 year old is significantly more developed physically than a 12 year old

3. Tendulkar earned his test spot. Insinuations and suggestions have been made that he got a break because he played for a 'weak' team and if he were in a stronger country cricketing-wise, he'd be held back. Well, Tendulkar earnt his test spot by averaging 50+ in FC cricket as a 15 year old. That kind of record from such a young age would make a case even in today's Aussie lineup.

Based on all this, i've said that there is no cricketing argument to claim that Tendulkar wouldnt have debuted till he was 20-21 in Test cricket.
If a guy is good enough to average 50+ as a 20 year old in Test cricket in a day and age where only three alltime great batsmen were doing so, he'd have cracked it in Test cricket noticably before his 20th birthday. That is all that i've claimed.
 
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luffy

International Captain
James said:
I shouldn't have to step in here, but it looks as though I have to.

Just cut it out, if you can't discuss it in a mature fashion, don't bother at all.
Go on James, step into it!! Lol sorry just got bored.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
I have selected the analogy from experience - i can speak from personal experience relating to the ICSE, CBSE, A-Levels and American education system and i've interacted a fair bit with Aussie students up here.
So far, i've found the Aussie and American students to be significantly less rounded than Canadian students, the O and A level students to be a bit better rounded and ICSE/CBSE just sitting on a whole new plane.
Just to give you an idea, i did ICSE grade 9 and i had to do Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, English language, English literature, Hindi Language, hindi literature, history, geography, Bengali as third language, a course in morals, woodworking and PE.
Just to give you an idea on English literature, i had to read Tale of two cities, McBeth(original text, not re-touched) and 25 select poems from the last 350 years of English poetry. Yes, this is grade 9 i am talking about following a standard model ICSE syllabus. Ie, enough time to go to school, do homework, eat and sleep on weekdays and finishing your last homework on the bus on the way to school.
As i said, its way way above any other system i've encountered or heard of, barring perhaps the Russian system where they do crazy math at high school levels.

Lovely speech. Relevance to the issue at hand?

Thanks by the way for clarifying how Asian people think for me. Might come in handy if I ever meet one. :huh:
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Matt79 said:
Lovely speech. Relevance to the issue at hand?

Thanks by the way for clarifying how Asian people think for me. Might come in handy if I ever meet one. :huh:
Don't worry mate, most of us aren't like that.
 

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