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What if Tendulkar was an Aussie ?

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I doubt he would have played a test match before the age of 18-20. If Ponting was selected at 17 for FC side, I assume Tendulkar would be selected at around the same time, so a Test call up a year or two years later. Aged about 20 is more reasonable IMO.
 

PrincePeiterson

Cricket Spectator
C_C said:
Havnt you English learnt already that making OZ bat first is a recipe for disaster ?
Unless you got a fully firing Harmison, Flintoff and Jones on a wicket that'll take seam and expose the Aussie batsmen's aversion to top level pace at conductive wickets, making OZ bat first is suicide!
Who said we would make them bat first? There's this thing called the toss which gives the winner the choice of batting or bowling first. Given our horrible tour so far I'm willing to to bet my left nut that Australia win the toss (not literally of course, i love my left nut) because these things always seem to go that way.
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
And with all those claims, it'd be good to see some proof as to how he would have done all these things you claim.

It was bad enough saying that he'd have definitely been selected at 17, now you reckon 14-15...

No, i reckon he'd be in ANY FC side in the late 80s - thats when he was 15/16/17 or so and into a test side by 18 at the latest.
And so far, i've seen zero credibility in arguments against it.
People bring up ponting as a benchmark, when factually, Tendulkar's junior years were considerably more prolific than Ponting's.

As per your rather assinine comment seeking proof for something hypothetical- the onus rests on the anti-posse to state how or why exactly a 20 year old with 50+ batting average in tests, at a time when only THREE others - all of them with over 100 tests in the bag and on the wrong side of 30- were averaging 50+.
So far, the only argument has been that OZ wouldnt have given him the chance.
This argument is flawed as i said- considering a lesser player like Ponting made FC debut at 17, there is no argument as to why a considerably higher achieving Tendulkar wouldnt also have made his FC debut at 16-17 considering it would've been 3-4 years before Ponting and at a time when OZ cricket was hardly the big dawg in the world.
And again, a player who averaged 50+ in tests before the age of 21 would've easily- easily i repeat- cracked the FC level by season two in ANY FC league- including today's OZ FC circles. Thats a nobrainer.
 
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C_C

International Captain
You may be able to leave school in India at age 14 to play cricket but I doubt the Australian education system would be that bad.
Home schooling is allowed in Australia i think.
Oh and Tendulkar passed his highschool.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
Home schooling is allowed in Australia i think.
Oh and Tendulkar passed his highschool.
Actually, there's a general trend in the treatment of young sports people in Australia to encourage them to finish school before becoming full time professionals. Even in sports where young teens can compete at the top level, like swimming for instance, most swimmers continue their education in combination with training, and allowances are made for them to do so. Not that it means much in terms of the quality of our education system, but I doubt any cricketer in Australia would be leaving school at 14 or 15 to play and train full time. That's one reason why FC debuts tend to come a bit later for Australian players, along with the obvious strength of the competition relative to other nations. Prodigies tend to play grade cricket on the weekends and attend camps and so on when they don't have school rather than actually becoming full time cricketers. If you look at the players who are given huge praise by coaches and so on in their teens in recent years, like Ponting, Henriques etc, that's the way they usually go about it.
 

C_C

International Captain
That's one reason why FC debuts tend to come a bit later for Australian players, along with the obvious strength of the competition relative to other nations.
That is talking with today's OZ cricket in the eye. Not in the past.

If you look at the players who are given huge praise by coaches and so on in their teens in recent years, like Ponting, Henriques etc, that's the way they usually go about it.
Ultimately, its up to the players themselves and their parents - if they deem homeschooling is worthwhile, its gonna happen. Anyways, this discussion has veered off too much in the wrong direction.
I think just about the only things we can base this hypothetical scenarios are :

1. Was Tendulkar good enough to play FC cricket in OZ when he actually started playing FC cricket ?

2. Was Tendulkar good enough to debut for OZ Test team at the age of 17-18 ?

3. Would he have had the required opening in the middle order of OZ ?

The answer to all those questions are very emphatically yes.
As i said- when a player has a 50+ test batting average before he is old enough to even vote in some places (ie, 21), especially in a day and age where only three others- all alltime great and established superstars in the twilight of their careers- averaged 50+, it is a fairly safe bet to say he'd have cracked it in any test team by his 18th birthday just on merit.
Back in the late 80s and early 90s, OZ batting was one of the stronger ones but not really run-away strongest batting lineup out there. The middle order was pretty open, with Boone and Border being the only certainties. Steve Waugh traded places on and off, Mark Waugh was tried and discarded a few times, Langer and Martyn tried and promptly bombed.
So it was not even a question of just one slot in the middle order open to competition for ALL the national candidates. The Aussie middle order was very much wide open and open to change.
OZ were also in the business of handing out debuts fairly young to players back then - Steve Waugh debuted as a FC cricketer at the age of 19 and Test cricket at the age of 20 for example and he was nowhere the teen/pre-teen prodigy Tendulkar was.
As such, based on far superior performances through the teens and pre teens, i dont see what would've stood in his path at all.
He is an exception case to most bread and butter decisions as he was so prodigious from such a fine age. And as such, you cannot find any other 20 year old with a 50+ average and 2500 runs in Test cricket, let alone in a day and age where only three others were achieving this. Atmost a 2 year delay could be justified because of superior competition for spots or a more structured system- no more than that and saying he would've debuted as a 20-21 year old is just downright ludicrous and totally ignorant of Tendulkar's prodigious talent- a monicker that none of the batsmen before or after him ( except for Sobers) deserves as much as he does.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
C_C said:
No, i reckon he'd be in ANY FC side in the late 80s - thats when he was 15/16/17 or so and into a test side by 18 at the latest.
And so far, i've seen zero credibility in arguments against it.
And at the same time, you've provided zero credibility for it...
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
And at the same time, you've provided zero credibility for it...
I cannot believe you said that, given that in the last 50 years of cricket, if anyone is likely to play test cricket for any country in any era before his 20th birthday barring Sobers, its Tendulkar.
There is no better candidate- batsman or bowler or wicketkeeper for this hypothetical scenario barring Sobers and therefore, i rest my case, having already demonstrated the factors that Tendulkar trumps everybody on.
Its disingenious of you to say i've provided zero credibility for it - i've outlined the conditions and achievements of Tendulkar which is more than any reason anyone could want.
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
Yes, Tendulkar in India.

But that is not the question being asked.
I again, cannot believe that you said that.
The case has already been made for Tendulkar to debut before the age of 20 for practically any team from any era incase you did not notice it.
I fail to see what more must one provide to give this sort of hypothetical scenario any sort measure of intelligent supposition.
 

PrincePeiterson

Cricket Spectator
C_C said:
I again, cannot believe that you said that.
The case has already been made for Tendulkar to debut before the age of 20 for practically any team from any era incase you did not notice it.
I fail to see what more must one provide to give this sort of hypothetical scenario any sort measure of intelligent supposition.
It has not been made. You say in the late 80's Tendulkar would leave school in Australia as a 14-15-16 year old before completing the minimum schooling requirement in Australia to take up homeschooling as he traveled around Australia to play Domestic cricket? Even if those things were possible you've completely ignored the fact that there was no money in cricket let alone Australian domestic cricket in the late 80's. What possible incentive would there have been for Tendulkar to leave school and leave home to play first class cricket? And what sort of parents would it take to let their child leave school before he had finished the minimum requirments just to play cricket around the country when there was no money in it?

It makes absolutely no sense, in fact, you would have to say Tendulkar would be losing money to follow this path. Back in the late 80's domestic cricket wasn't profesional, players also had day jobs to keep them going. No sense at all.
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
CC you're full of crap..

And by what means do you suggest Tendulkar was far more of a prodigy than Ponting..
From everything I have heard Ponting was pretty close to unbelievable as Junior.
 

C_C

International Captain
Even if those things were possible you've completely ignored the fact that there was no money in cricket let alone Australian domestic cricket in the late 80's. What possible incentive would there have been for Tendulkar to leave school and leave home to play first class cricket?
There was even less money in Indian cricket in the late 80s and he still did it all, didnt he ?
Sorry but flawed argument.
 

C_C

International Captain
Eclipse said:
CC you're full of crap..

And by what means do you suggest Tendulkar was far more of a prodigy than Ponting..
From everything I have heard Ponting was pretty close to unbelievable as Junior.
Because factually speaking, everything Ponting did as a 'kid', slap on an extra 15-20% in performance and Tendulkar had already 'been there done that' 2-3 years before Ponting had.
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
C_C said:
Because factually speaking, everything Ponting did as a 'kid', slap on an extra 15-20% in performance and Tendulkar had already 'been there done that' 2-3 years before Ponting had.
Well lets see this factual evidence shall we. Because I personaly don't believe you.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Oh my god, this argument again...

Tendulkar wouldn't have got a test cap before 20, in Australia, full stop. I remember last time this argument went into Tendulkar being on the same plane as Mozart.
 

PrincePeiterson

Cricket Spectator
C_C said:
There was even less money in Indian cricket in the late 80s and he still did it all, didnt he ?
Sorry but flawed argument.
General standards of living issues come into this also. Would a parent in Australia allow their kid to leave home and school at age 15 or 16 to chase a cricket dream? No. Would they let their kid attend junior camps and clinics nuturing his tallent for free while he also finished a basic education? Yes.

If Tendulkar was only a kid then his parents would have wanted him to have at least finished grade 10 before he went off chasing a dream of playing for Australia.

Tendulkar would not have played cricket for his state in Australia before he had finished grade 10. Full stop.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
Better question is "What if Tendaulkar was South African".

Answer: Nobody outside RSA would rate him that much at all, except grudgingly.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
KaZoH0lic said:
Oh my god, this argument again...

Tendulkar wouldn't have got a test cap before 20, in Australia, full stop. I remember last time this argument went into Tendulkar being on the same plane as Mozart.
Yea, Ponting got it when he was 20, so I don't really see Tendulkar getting it that much eariler. 19 at the earliest, most likely 20.
 

C_C

International Captain
Eclipse said:
Well lets see this factual evidence shall we. Because I personaly don't believe you.

Go to cricketarchive.co.uk, go to Mumbai cricket association and request for Tendulkar's scores in his pre FC years.
You will find out - quite rightly so- he is far more illustrious in his youth than anyone else.
 

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