What if Tendulkar was an Aussie ?

[silentstriker]

If ricky ponting was from any other country than England or Australia he would be considered a better player.

Is that a joke? An anti-aussie bias in cricket? Considering at least three players from one aussie team (mcgrath, warne and gilchrist) are in like 50% of the CW members all time sides....I highly doubt that is the case.

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Is that a joke? An anti-aussie bias in cricket? Considering at least three players from one aussie team (mcgrath, warne and gilchrist) are in like 50% of the CW members all time sides....I highly doubt that is the case.

Who said anything about that? I made a statement about Ricky Ponting and how he would perhaps have a higher profile if he wasn't from Australia as a batter. Until the first two tests of this Ashes if you had asked me who the 5 best batters in the world are I would have said

1-Sachin Tendulkar
2-Brian Lara
3-Rahul Dravid
4-Jacques Kallis
5-Yousif Youhana aka Mohhamed

Until I saw how good Ponting was in those first two tests I honestly thought he wasn't even in the top 5 or 6 batters in the world and that he had only won his ICC awards because he is australian but he's a blooming genious with the bat and I think he has been underrated for the last few years.

 

[silentstriker]

Until the first two tests of this Ashes if you had asked me who the 5 best batters in the world are I would have said

Where have you been hiding since about 2002?

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Where have you been hiding since about 2002?

Hey take a guess genious. It's called real life, which by the looks of your post count you don't have much time for.

 

[silentstriker]

Hey take a guess genious. It's called real life, which by the looks of your post count you don't have much time for.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Harsh, but fair.

I guess it could be fair. I went overboard with my response so i would like to say sorry.

PP

 

[Jono]

Who said anything about that? I made a statement about Ricky Ponting and how he would perhaps have a higher profile if he wasn't from Australia as a batter. Until the first two tests of this Ashes if you had asked me who the 5 best batters in the world are I would have said

1-Sachin Tendulkar
2-Brian Lara
3-Rahul Dravid
4-Jacques Kallis
5-Yousif Youhana aka Mohhamed

Until I saw how good Ponting was in those first two tests I honestly thought he wasn't even in the top 5 or 6 batters in the world and that he had only won his ICC awards because he is australian but he's a blooming genious with the bat and I think he has been underrated for the last few years.

I mean no offence in this, but have you seriously only realised how good Ponting has been since the start of this year's Ashes? You've obviously watched cricket for a few years seeing as you know how good the aforementioned batsmen are or were (particularly the first 2) but Ponting has been dominating attacks for years and his 2003 year and 2005 year were filled with plenty of runs as well. What about his knocks in the first two Ashes tests against fairly ordinary attacks on flat decks has suddenly made you think he's a great compared to previous brilliant knocks of his such as his 156 at Old Trafford in the 3rd Ashes Test last year or his century at the MCG at last year's Boxing Day test?

 

[PrincePeiterson]

I mean no offence in this, but have you seriously only realised how good Ponting has been since the start of this year's Ashes? You've obviously watched cricket for a few years seeing as you know how good the aforementioned batsmen are or were (particularly the first 2) but Ponting has been dominating attacks for years and his 2003 year and 2005 year were filled with plenty of runs as well. What about his knocks in the first two Ashes tests against fairly ordinary attacks on flat decks has suddenly made you think he's a great compared to previous brilliant knocks of his such as his 156 at Old Trafford in the 3rd Ashes Test last year or his century at the MCG at last year's Boxing Day test?

His series here in 2005 wasnt great but for that 156. Didn't really have that great of an opinion of him from that. His form since then was supposed to be good, but he didn't exactly play the most tallented sides going around so I sorta just fobbed it off. After seeing him with my own eyes in the first couple of tests I gota say that hes in great nick.

Obviously being from England I haven't seen much of him, or not as much as most people would have and from the way people still talk about Lara and Tendulkar I would have thought they were much better players than Ponting.

I guess it's just perception. Before the first test I'd never actually seen Ponting at his best so it was pretty difficult for me to imagine that he was really as good as he is.

 

[Jono]

I think the attacks he faced in South Africa (Ntini, Pollock and Nel on seaming wickets, or at the least pitches that were tough to play on going by today's standards) were better than the one he faced in England.

I understand that you say he had a poor Ashes series last year and you haven't seen much else of him, but Ponting's knocks in this Ashes aren't that high up in the scale compared to some of his good ones.

And regarding your other point as to why people hold Lara and Sachin in higher regard, you've really had to have watched cricket in the 90s to understand I guess.

 

[PrincePeiterson]

I think the attacks he faced in South Africa (Ntini, Pollock and Nel on seaming wickets, or at the least pitches that were tough to play on going by today's standards) were better than the one he faced in England.

I understand that you say he had a poor Ashes series last year and you haven't seen much else of him, but Ponting's knocks in this Ashes aren't that high up in the scale compared to some of his good ones.

And regarding your other point as to why people hold Lara and Sachin in higher regard, you've really had to have watched cricket in the 90s to understand I guess.

Well I've been watching cricket since I was a grass hopper so that's probably why I have such a high opinion of Lara and Tendulkar.

 

[Jono]

Exactly, so you've seen Sachin and Lara at their best against the attacks they faced. So despite Ponting piling on the runs this year and in 2003 and 2005 as well, people like myself aren't willing to label him better than Sachin, Lara and Steve Waugh just yet.

But what confused me (but I guess you said yourself you haven't watched that much Ponting) was to the fact that you suddenly rated Ponting after this Ashes test. Those hundreds were good, but I think the current English attack and pitches used in those 2 tests diminishes the quality of those 2 centuries a bit. Whereas Ponting's knock at Old Trafford, and his overall series vs. SA in SA this year were his true peaks IMO. Good fast bowling attacks with wickets/conditions that were tough to bat on.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

In terms of the actual quality of batting, I think the 196 in Brisbane in the first Ashes test is the best Ponting has ever batted. He was absolutely unbelievable from the first ball to the last, and a double ton seemed a certainty from the time he got to 50. If there was any doubt about his ability at this stage of his career (with people questioning his form and so on), he dispelled them in a huge way. The twin centuries at the SCG last year were close as well, just unstoppable form.

Having said that, obviously he's played much better innings in the sense that they were in more difficult circumstances and against better bowling. That 156 at OT is probably the pick, and obviously he made big runs against a few great seam bowlers early in his career. Really depends on what you're judging him on.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I guess it could be fair. I went overboard with my response so i would like to say sorry.

PP

There goes a future Chairman of the Arts Council.

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Exactly, so you've seen Sachin and Lara at their best against the attacks they faced. So despite Ponting piling on the runs this year and in 2003 and 2005 as well, people like myself aren't willing to label him better than Sachin, Lara and Steve Waugh just yet.

But what confused me (but I guess you said yourself you haven't watched that much Ponting) was to the fact that you suddenly rated Ponting after this Ashes test. Those hundreds were good, but I think the current English attack and pitches used in those 2 tests diminishes the quality of those 2 centuries a bit. Whereas Ponting's knock at Old Trafford, and his overall series vs. SA in SA this year were his true peaks IMO. Good fast bowling attacks with wickets/conditions that were tough to bat on.

The thing that swung me wasnt the fact that he had made a couple of 100s against us, but the fact that his ability is heads above any other batter playing in the series it's not funny. From the moment he comes to the crease he looks like he's going to smack a 100 or more and he looks like he could do it with his eyes closed. This is the sort of form that Lara and Tendulkar made their names with, it's absolutely remarkable. I'm at a loss for how we can possibly get him out when he's in this type of form.

 

[C_C]

I'm at a loss for how we can possibly get him out when he's in this type of form.

Make a pitch that'll take spin from day 2(not slow square-turners...but uneven turners) and get a good spinner on it.

 

[C_C]

If Ponting had been from any other state in australia he would not have made his debute till the age of 19. With all this in mind I think that if Tendulkar was also from Tasmania he would have made his debute for Tasmania at about the same age and then he would have had to play domestic cricket for at least 2 seasons meaning he wouldnt have made his debute till about 19

Look mate, Tendulkar was way way above anyone else in his pre/early teens.
All these anecdotal stories about Ponting built years after Ponting's success cant negate the REAL and indisputable records Tendy built as a youth.
Not a diss on Ponting-just highlighting how Tendy was way way ahead of anyone else active today in his preteens/teens.
If Ponting made his debut for Tasmania at 17, you can bet your bottom dollar that Tendy would've debuted for Tasmania as a 15 year old. Why ? Because Tendy was doing at 14 what Ponting was doing at 16-17 and doing it better.
If it were some other state, Tendy would've debuted around a year or two later....which would still mean debuting at tests around 18.
Also you are forgetting that Ponting debuted in FC cricket in 92/93. Tendy made his FC debut in 88. And in 88, Tendy would not only have debuted for almost any freaking OZ FC side, he'd most likely walk into the test team in 89-90 as well, considering that he would be competing for a spot with lesser mortals like Martyn or Langer or Mark Waugh.
OZ FC cricket wasnt too hot (though it was at a very decent standard) till the mid 90s - ie, the FC 'generation' that honed Gillchrist-Langer-Hayden etc. in their 20s.

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Make a pitch that'll take spin from day 2(not slow square-turners...but uneven turners) and get a good spinner on it.

By day two he'll allready have a 100 and with the likely possibility of Giles playing as our first choice spinner still it's not a promising plan.

 

[C_C]

By day two he'll allready have a 100 and with the likely possibility of Giles playing as our first choice spinner still it's not a promising plan.

Havnt you English learnt already that making OZ bat first is a recipe for disaster ?
Unless you got a fully firing Harmison, Flintoff and Jones on a wicket that'll take seam and expose the Aussie batsmen's aversion to top level pace at conductive wickets, making OZ bat first is suicide!

 

[marc71178]

Look mate, Tendulkar was way way above anyone else in his pre/early teens.
All these anecdotal stories about Ponting built years after Ponting's success cant negate the REAL and indisputable records Tendy built as a youth.
Not a diss on Ponting-just highlighting how Tendy was way way ahead of anyone else active today in his preteens/teens.
If Ponting made his debut for Tasmania at 17, you can bet your bottom dollar that Tendy would've debuted for Tasmania as a 15 year old. Why ? Because Tendy was doing at 14 what Ponting was doing at 16-17 and doing it better.
If it were some other state, Tendy would've debuted around a year or two later....which would still mean debuting at tests around 18.
Also you are forgetting that Ponting debuted in FC cricket in 92/93. Tendy made his FC debut in 88. And in 88, Tendy would not only have debuted for almost any freaking OZ FC side, he'd most likely walk into the test team in 89-90 as well, considering that he would be competing for a spot with lesser mortals like Martyn or Langer or Mark Waugh.
OZ FC cricket wasnt too hot (though it was at a very decent standard) till the mid 90s - ie, the FC 'generation' that honed Gillchrist-Langer-Hayden etc. in their 20s.

And with all those claims, it'd be good to see some proof as to how he would have done all these things you claim.

It was bad enough saying that he'd have definitely been selected at 17, now you reckon 14-15...

 

[PrincePeiterson]

Look mate, Tendulkar was way way above anyone else in his pre/early teens.
All these anecdotal stories about Ponting built years after Ponting's success cant negate the REAL and indisputable records Tendy built as a youth.
Not a diss on Ponting-just highlighting how Tendy was way way ahead of anyone else active today in his preteens/teens.
If Ponting made his debut for Tasmania at 17, you can bet your bottom dollar that Tendy would've debuted for Tasmania as a 15 year old. Why ? Because Tendy was doing at 14 what Ponting was doing at 16-17 and doing it better.
If it were some other state, Tendy would've debuted around a year or two later....which would still mean debuting at tests around 18.
Also you are forgetting that Ponting debuted in FC cricket in 92/93. Tendy made his FC debut in 88. And in 88, Tendy would not only have debuted for almost any freaking OZ FC side, he'd most likely walk into the test team in 89-90 as well, considering that he would be competing for a spot with lesser mortals like Martyn or Langer or Mark Waugh.
OZ FC cricket wasnt too hot (though it was at a very decent standard) till the mid 90s - ie, the FC 'generation' that honed Gillchrist-Langer-Hayden etc. in their 20s.

As a 15 year old now you really are having a laugh. He would have been in grade 8 or 9 trying to get along in school. He might have been given a rookie contract to aid his development at age 15 but I doubt a 15 year old would be alowed to move out on his own and leave school to play cricket full time.

Ricky Ponting was only able to make his debute at age 17 because he had left school after grade 10 which is the minimum requirment in australia. You may be able to leave school in India at age 14 to play cricket but I doubt the Australian education system would be that bad.