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Wally Hammond vs Jacques Kallis

Wally Hammond vs Jacques Kallis

  • Total voters
    25
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
sayon basak said:
Where do you rate Abdul Qadir?

Dickie Bird rated him as the greatest spinner he had ever seen.

Richie Benaud rated him as the 3rd gretest wrist spinner ever, only below Warne and O'Reilly.

Graham Gooch, who faced Qadir in the Lahore test where he took 9-56, said that Qadir was ever finer than Shane Warne.

Christopher Martin-Jenkins rated him in his top 100, as the 5th greatest leg spinner ever.

Imran Khan said that if Abdul Qadir had played in the modern era, he could have taken more wickets than Australia's Shane Warne.

David "Bumble" Lloyd said that Qadir was the third greatest spinner ever after Muralitharan and Warne.

Rodney Marsh included Abdul Qadir in his all-time greatest playing XI, stating, "He is the best leggie I've played against."

Kamran Abbasi argued for Qadir's superiority over Shane Warne.

Bill O’Reilly sat with binoculars at Sydney Cricket Ground in 1984 to watch Qadir, only to conclude with, ‘I can’t pick him. I haven’t a clue. What a great bowler.’

Scyld Berry, the incoming editor of Wisden Almanack: "It is impossible to believe that wrist-spin has ever been bowled better than Qadir did in his home city of Lahore in 1987-88, when he took 9 for 56 against England."
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Where do I?

I think there's only 3 ATG spinners. Behind those 3 it's anyone's call.

Not sure about Dickie Bird, he listed Warne and Gibbs in his all time XI.

Benaud was partial to leg spinners and more than a little biased against Murali. He also stated that his all time team, wasn't the best, but rather ones he would want to represent him.

Nothing wrong with Gooch's take. That's what he experienced.

Top 100 sounds ok to me, no issue there.

Imran was making a projection based on his guy. That what captains do

Bumble lives to be entertained, he lives to watch Qadir.

He would have also easily been the best leggie Marsh played against.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the last proclamation. It's probably true.

So two points, most of those statements basically said he's the best spinner after Warne and Murali, quite a few people believe that.
A lot of Australians still believe Lillee is the greatest ever, some still on the forum as well.

The list I collected was to counter an incorrect statement that Pollock was universally rated higher than Richards. It was a statement based purely on peer review, and was shown to be incorrect.

And most importantly, I stated at the end, the list isn't to prove he was better than anyone, Pollock, Sunny, anyone.

It was was to show that he did and does get AT recognition as one of the greatest batsman ever.

And the thing with spinners is that there's no clear no. 4, Qadir could be as close as any?
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Regular
There haven’t been any world class spinners post war except for Murali and Warne.

Jacques Kallis was a world class batsman. I ain’t picking someone who played 20 Tests and scored 2000 runs in the 1960s even if he was more talented over someone played 150 Tests, 13000 runs and 45 centuries @ 55 in the 1990s, 2000s and 2010s.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
DrWolverine said:
There haven’t been any world class spinners post war except for Murali and Warne.

Jacques Kallis was a world class batsman. I ain’t picking someone who played 20 Tests and scored 2000 runs in the 1960s even if he was more talented over someone played 150 Tests, 13000 runs and 45 centuries @ 55 in the 1990s, 2000s and 2010s.
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You don't rank O'Reilly as easily the 3rd best spinner ever?
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
That's literally my argument as well, no malice, but, and this is an argument I've been consistent about for over a decade. Why when you have the best batsmen ever, would one select your bowling attack based on batting.

I also know that I'm only one of 3 persons on the forum to believe this, but the slip cordon should be a much bigger focus, because the better the bowlers are, especially the bowlers that you've chosen, the more the cordon would be engaged, and in such competitions one cannot afford to let chances to to waste.

Your thoughts?
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@Cricket Bliss you disagree?
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Regular
kyear2 said:
You don't rank O'Reilly as easily the 3rd best spinner ever?
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I used to.

Nowadays I am not really sure. Yes he was the best of his time but not comfortable ranking him as the 3rd best spinner.

He played 27 Tests and 19 of them against just one opposition and he wasn’t a statistical outlier like Don.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Would you agree there is no consensus that Barry is the best SA bat?
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Screenshot_2025-04-01-01-15-07-63_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

That was not the demonstrative and quite uninformed statement that you made.

This is why it's impossible to have an discussion with you.

You come out and spew nonsense and instead of admitting you were undeniably wrong, you try to shift the parameters mid flight.
.the worst part is that you'll make the same ignorant statement again and pretend this conversation never occured
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
DrWolverine said:
I used to.

Nowadays I am not really sure. Yes he was the best of his time but not comfortable ranking him as the 3rd best spinner.

He played 27 Tests and 19 of them against just one opposition and he wasn’t a statistical outlier like Don.
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Yes, I only count him as playing 19 tests, the same for Headley (what he played before the war).
I also count Barry as playing 14 tests.

The 9 officially sanctioned ones that he played in, and WSC.

Not that big a difference from 19 to 14.

And I'm not ignoring neither the greatest pre war spinner and only ATG in the ultimate batting era, nor am I a batsman that was deemed the best they've ever seen by all who saw him.
 
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