subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Happens.
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Wally Hammond vs Jacques Kallis
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
Thala_0710
International Debutant
Les Ames or Kumar Sangakkara
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
This is a question I can never decide on my own answer to. I change my mind and talk myself into and out of the case for different players constantly.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm sure Sanga and De Villiers would both do a good job. I can just never get on board with a) wasting Sanga behind the stumps and giving up all those extra runs with the bat, and b) picking ABDV to do something in an all-time context that he did so relatively rarely in his actual career.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Fun article.
Unfinished business
Following the farce at the Sir Viv Richards Stadium, we look at other matches that have ended prematurely
www.espncricinfo.com
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I do really like this team though - Trumper, Miller and Lindwall all playing together? Shut up and take my money.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Snoozefest
Johan
International Coach
Sadly, from an entertainment perspective, Boycott and Kallis do their best to drag the team down.
I've got Sachin a fair way ahead of the modern guys based on how long he played for, but him aside, a bunch of modern bats are close to each other.
I'm not too sure how to rank Hammond. He might be ahead of all the other modern bats and a fair bit better than Kallis. If he is squeezed into the already small space between Kallis and [insert the name of a modern bat better than Kallis] they are very close as bats.
Clearly not the case with bowling. Kallis has more than 3x the wickets, nearly double the WPM and a 5 point average gap, which is huge for bowlers. The bowling average for games both of them played in was 32.x. Kallis was average by average, and Hammond was poor.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Ok, this is at least the 2nd time that I'm doing this.
But you continue to be deliberately dishonest, no surprises I guess, and make up facts.
I know you'll just ignore this and pretend none of it exists, but I persist.
There was never a consensus that Pollock was a better batsman than Barry.
First let me start off with the number of people who either rank him the best batsman or best opener they've ever seen.
Bradman, Thompson, Lillee
Gooch, Bob Taylor, Dicky Bird, McKenzie, Pollock, Procter
We can next go to some lists by the following pundits, writers, historians or former players... For funsies I'll list Barry, Polly and Sunny for reference. Some obviously carry more weight than others.
Christopher Martin Jenkins
Richards - 28 ; Pollock - 37 ; Gavaskar 26
David Gower
Richards - 15 ; Pollock - 25 ; Gavaskar - 26
Woodcock
Richards - 15 ; Pollock - 30 ; Gavaskar - 23
TMS
Richards - 15 ; Pollock - 36 ; Gavaskar - 12
This one means less, but.
Broken Dreams
Richards - 19 ; Pollock - 22 ; Gavaskar - 28
I can also present cricketers who name Richards in their AT XI's and the remainder of the batting lineups
Bob Willis
Hobbs | Richards | Bradman | Richards | Kallis | Sangakkara| Sobers
John Snow
Richards | Gavaskar | Bradman | Richards | Pollock | Sobers | Knott
Tony Grieg
Hutton | Richards | Bradman | Pollock | Richards | Sobers | Knott
Barry also made the 2nd AT teams for Cricinfo and Martin Crowe, Pollock makes neither.
The Bleacher report and The Roar also selected XI's to take on Wisden's AT XI, Barry made both.
Now I'm not saying that all this proves Barry is better than Pollock or even Sunny. But it does....
Prove that the stance there's a consensus that Pollock is ahead of him is an idea purely constructed in your head.
And that ...
Barry very much belongs in the AT XI conversation. And the notion that he doesn't is at the very least, flawed.
Now I know how you are, and I don't expect you to stop slagging off on him, but I do expect you to stop the lie that Pollock is by consensus better than he is. It is in fact closer to the other way round.
sayon basak
Cricketer Of The Year
Damn.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
That's literally my argument as well, no malice, but, and this is an argument I've been consistent about for over a decade. Why when you have the best batsmen ever, would one select your bowling attack based on batting.
I also know that I'm only one of 3 persons on the forum to believe this, but the slip cordon should be a much bigger focus, because the better the bowlers are, especially the bowlers that you've chosen, the more the cordon would be engaged, and in such competitions one cannot afford to let chances to to waste.
Your thoughts?
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
I personally don't go back that far to include Barnes, but stylistically I would imagine he would have been closer to McGrath?
But honestly no one knows for sure.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
You have to understand that basically he idolizes Imran, so he rates him higher than most, and to justify said rankings he ranks Kallis, Ambrose and Steyn lower than most.
So yes, he under rated Kallis as a batsman and a bowler, he generally just ignores the catching.
sayon basak
Cricketer Of The Year
Where do you rate Abdul Qadir?
Dickie Bird rated him as the greatest spinner he had ever seen.
Richie Benaud rated him as the 3rd gretest wrist spinner ever, only below Warne and O'Reilly.
Graham Gooch, who faced Qadir in the Lahore test where he took 9-56, said that Qadir was ever finer than Shane Warne.
Christopher Martin-Jenkins rated him in his top 100, as the 5th greatest leg spinner ever.
Imran Khan said that if Abdul Qadir had played in the modern era, he could have taken more wickets than Australia's Shane Warne.
David "Bumble" Lloyd said that Qadir was the third greatest spinner ever after Muralitharan and Warne.
Rodney Marsh included Abdul Qadir in his all-time greatest playing XI, stating, "He is the best leggie I've played against."
Kamran Abbasi argued for Qadir's superiority over Shane Warne.
Bill O’Reilly sat with binoculars at Sydney Cricket Ground in 1984 to watch Qadir, only to conclude with, ‘I can’t pick him. I haven’t a clue. What a great bowler.’
Scyld Berry, the incoming editor of Wisden Almanack: "It is impossible to believe that wrist-spin has ever been bowled better than Qadir did in his home city of Lahore in 1987-88, when he took 9 for 56 against England."
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lol. I rate Steyn ahead of Imran as a bowler.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
That's an excellent question.
Depends what you're looking for.
Can go for Evans for pure keeping brilliance, Walcott or Sanga for good keeping and above average batting, Johnny Waite from SA, Healy etc etc. once they're at least world class with the gloves, it's all good.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Would you agree there is no consensus that Barry is the best SA bat?
DrWolverine
International Regular
The best batsman from SouthAfrica is Jacques Kallis.
*Pollock played 20 odd Tests & Barry played 4 Tests
*Pollock played 20 odd Tests & Barry played 4 Tests