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Viv Richards vs Steve Smith

Who is better post-peak?


  • Total voters
    20

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sachin having a second peak was amazing.
43 Tests. 75 inn. 4102 runs @ 63. 16 tons.
Becoming the best at that age was exceptional
Viv had a slight dip in 82 and 83, and between 84 and 88 he averaged 49, very good but still far from the monster he was in his peak.

Clearly age affecting his reflexes and power meant he couldn't replicate the same form. The fact that Tendulkar could pick himself up definitely goes to his credit.
 

sayon basak

International Captain
Such a poor take from you.
Even though i am also a sachin fan, but there is no shame of accepting the fact that Smith faced better sl Bowlers than sachin in more bowling friendly pitches .

And facing medium pacer Jamal in Australia spicy pitches is way tougher than facing akhtar in Rawalpindi.
Well Smith also faced Md Asif in england swing friendly Pitches during his debut series.
W/l ratio of sl in 90s - 0.63
W/l ratio of sl in 2010s -0.77

View attachment 45247
Good job Narayana. Better than the previous ones, I must say.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Such a poor take from you.
Even though i am also a sachin fan, but there is no shame of accepting the fact that Smith faced better sl Bowlers than sachin in more bowling friendly pitches .

And facing medium pacer Jamal in Australia spicy pitches is way tougher than facing akhtar in Rawalpindi.
Well Smith also faced Md Asif in england swing friendly Pitches during his debut series.
W/l ratio of sl in 90s - 0.63
W/l ratio of sl in 2010s -0.77

View attachment 45247
You sound more like a Smith fan than Sachin fan.
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Such a poor take from you.
Even though i am also a sachin fan, but there is no shame of accepting the fact that Smith faced better sl Bowlers than sachin in more bowling friendly pitches .

And facing medium pacer Jamal in Australia spicy pitches is way tougher than facing akhtar in Rawalpindi.
Well Smith also faced Md Asif in england swing friendly Pitches during his debut series.
W/l ratio of sl in 90s - 0.63
W/l ratio of sl in 2010s -0.77

View attachment 45247
Can you give me your top 5 bowlers??
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
3 Aussies from 1997-2002
1 Aussie from 2020-2025 .

Not really
Sachin prime started from 1997
Sachin averaged 67.64 between 1997-1999 dec
During the same period -
Sl Batter De Silva averaged 66.36 mainly due to flat pitches,
You can just see the statsguru Host countries bowling average involving sachin tendulkar,other than Zimbabwe and Australia, pitches were flat all over the world.
Tendulkar's prime started in 93.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
New Debutant Kallis averaged 50+ away, newbie Gilly averaged 60+ in away conditions, So many Asian players averaged 53-55 in away conditions, this only tells about the conditions during this period .
Yes and most of these coincided with the early 2000s flattening of pitches. This isnt some new revelation.
 

Johan

International Captain
76 was a batting friendly series bro c'mon. That's what made Holdings 14 wickets so exceptional.

Ok but I think you are overdoing Sachins flaws while glossing over Viv a bit to just suggest parity. Viv just wasn't the type to plan innings (like Sachin did to take down Warne) and adapt his game with new strokes and modified technique over his career. Viv's output declined with age and lessening of his physical attributes whereas Sachin encountered actual injuries 2003 to 2006 that put a halt to his worldclass returns.

Sachin bounced back 2007 to 2011 and that included series in SA on pace friendly wickets and a great series in Australia in 2007/8 against a very good attack. I don't think reclaiming the no.1 title at near 40 years is a small feat. It's a bit disrespectful to his mastery to just chuck that all to 'flat pitches' because even with those he was averaging 64 in his second peak, well ahead of any post-peak phase of Viv.

Viv never came close to the bat he was in his peak whereas Sachin did thanks to his technique and adaptability.

not sure I can agree it was, I've never seen enough to suggest it was anything but the traditional English conditions honestly, plus, Dukes.

I mean, I disagree and feel like it's the exact opposite, Viv's weaknesses are overstated while Sachin's weaknesses are hidden, probably because he's been mytholized at this point but for example you mention the tennis elbow but don't mention the Pterygium that Viv suffered from that decreased his physical ability and contributed to the loss of form, both are equally valid but only Sachin gets people mentioning it every single time, for Sachin it's a valid reason, for Viv it's an excuse.

I mean, Sure? Viv from 84-88, Sachin from 2007-2011 found some of that old batting ability back, Sachin did it via technique reworking, Viv did it via the sheer force of will, I never refused that for either, He did have a good south Africa series, his Australia series was good too though on absolute roads but still decent regardless.

oh, I disagree with the idea that 2007-11 Sachin is close to 97-2002 Sachin.
 

ankitj

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Post-peak only

So Viv after England in WI 80/81, Smith after Ashes 2019

Viv
77 matches 114 innings 4571 @ 43.12 11 tons 29 50’s

Smith
48 matches 82 innings 3298 @ 45.17 10 tons 14 fifties
Numbers are closer than I thought.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
not sure I can agree it was, I've never seen enough to suggest it was anything but the traditional English conditions honestly, plus, Dukes.
I consider 76 an ATG series but it clearly was batting friendly as per the match reports I read.

I mean, I disagree and feel like it's the exact opposite, Viv's weaknesses are overstated while Sachin's weaknesses are hidden, probably because he's been mytholized at this point but for example you mention the tennis elbow but don't mention the Pterygium that Viv suffered from that decreased his physical ability and contributed to the loss of form, both are equally valid but only Sachin gets people mentioning it every single time, for Sachin it's a valid reason, for Viv it's an excuse.
Sorry, but Vivs condition was largely part of his physical aging process and not really a classic injury per se, almost like Wasim getting diabetes, you don't excuse lack of performance based on that.

Main thing is he relied on his physical gifts and his runs diminished over time as these gifts did. I think it's different to short term external injuries that Tendulkar had that are more valid excuses for lack of performance.

I mean, Sure? Viv from 84-88, Sachin from 2007-2011 found some of that old batting ability back, Sachin did it via technique reworking, Viv did it via the sheer force of will, I never refused that for either, He did have a good south Africa series, his Australia series was good too though on absolute roads but still decent regardless.
Sachin 2007-2011 was clearly a tier better batsman than Viv 84-88 and that is largely due to him having the technique to do so. Vivs 'force of will' wasn't going to replicate his original dominance.

oh, I disagree with the idea that 2007-11 Sachin is close to 97-2002 Sachin.
He averaged the same (yes flatter era) and had two of his best ever career series from 2007 to 2011.

Yes he was a better bat in his earlier peak but clearly came close to that level. At the very least, closer than Viv came to his peak.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
It was a two match series, he had to open the batting in the first and he saved the game with a great knock in the second test. Was as good as a big hundred on value. He sucked in 06 and 2011 but his first two tours of SA were fine imo.
Fair enough. I only remember Sehwags and Tendulkars knocks from that tour, was some time ago.
 

Johan

International Captain
I consider 76 an ATG series but it clearly was batting friendly as per the match reports I read.
Yeah but England didn't really make much, and plenty of bowlers found success at moment, it might be closer to batting friendly but I don't buy it being all roads.

Sorry, but Vivs condition was largely part of his physical aging process and not really a classic injury per se, almost like Wasim getting diabetes, you don't excuse lack of performance based on that.
Pterygium is caused by ocular exposure to the ultra violat rays of the sun, Like C'mon, I get you like Tendulkar but let's not associate Pterygium to just natural aging.

Sachin 2007-2011 was clearly a tier better batsman than Viv 84-88 and that is largely due to him having the technique to do so. Vivs 'force of will' wasn't going to replicate his original dominance.
I don't think Sachin 2007-2011 was a tier above in batting, without Bangladesh he averages 55 and Viv 50, while one is batting in mid 80s and Sachin had...a lot more generous wickets to say the very least. I think he was better though.

He averaged the same (yes flatter era) and had two of his best ever career series from 2007 to 2011.

Yes he was a better bat in his earlier peak but clearly came close to that level. At the very least, closer than Viv came to his peak.
Ykw, sure, he came closer to his peak, but Viv's peak is harder to come close to than Sachin's
 

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