Viv Richards vs Adam Gilchrist

[Johan]

But is it white?

nah not yet

 

[sayon basak]

nah not yet

What do you mean? Isn't it white from the beginning?

 

[smash84]

This is quite close. I am still not sure how to vote in this.

Gilly does bring incredible batting, even if significantly less than Richards, to the team but he also brings his keeping which adds immense value to the side.

 

[kyear2]

Sobers doesn't make it into the top 100 as a bowler.

Sobers is a top 5 bat and top 5 slip.

Surely not top 50 bowler, but also don't know where he would land.

Is Gilly a top 20 wicketkeeper though? Not sure tbh.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

In which two disciplines Solkar was ATG?

Bradman was ATG in only one discipline.

 

[kyear2]

Tests : Viv
ODI : Viv

Even if Gilly has a higher chance of getting into an all time eleven than Viv, there is no way he is a greater cricketer than the legendary Richards.

Does he though?

There are two good standard AT teams, Viv makes both, Gilly only one.

His peer and pundit ratings are off the charts by anyone who's seen him bat.

Outside of the penned in two of Sobers and Bradman and the other two automatic picks of Tendulkar, Marshall and possibly Hobbs, Gilly and Richards are both in that pretty sure to get in group.

 

[kyear2]

Interesting. @kyear2 thoughts?

Already answered.

Who's ahead of Vivian for the spot? No one.

He may be challenged by Smith and Lara but that's basically it.

 

[kyear2]

Hammond is an ATG bat and an ATG, arguably GOAT slip

Indeed.

 

[kyear2]

After don Bradman, Gilchrist is only player whose selection in all time xi Is sure shot, no competition at all.

That's not remotely true.

There are two penned in automatic names.

Sir Donald Bradman
Sir Garfield Sobers.

Then there's the all but automatic, but will make it and possibly unanimously.

Malcolm Marshall
Sachin Tendulkar

Then we get to Hobbs, Gilchrist, Warne, Richards, Hutton and the rest.

Gilchrist didn't even make Wisden's all time XI, and there's about 4 players ahead of him.

 

[kyear2]

View attachment 44831

Wonder what @Coronis is laughing at.

By what metric is Marshall not an automatic. How does the best fast bowler who can bat not make any AT World XI?

Bat deep, he qualifies. Best all out attack, he makes it. Any combination of the above, he makes it.

By attributes and skill set, he makes it. By ability to dominate in any and all locales and conditions, he makes it.

By any metric he's the 3rd name on the list. Your batsman, all rounder and spear head.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

don’t think Marshall is anymore of a lock than Gilchrist

 

[kyear2]

Pant and Rizwan

Oh God that was funny

No.

 

[kyear2]

Sangakkara, Knott, De Villiers, Walcott, Flower, Evans, Ames, Oldfield, Healy..... All have claims of different levels. Sobers is much more of a sure shot.

If the better keeper is preferred, Knott is the pick.

If Murali makes the first team, Sanga has a more than decent shot.

 

[kyear2]

ENG vs WI Live score - West Indies tour of England 1980 July 24 - 29, 1980 4th Test in London

England vs West Indies live cricket score, West Indies tour of England 1980, 4th Test at Kennington Oval, London. Get live score, ball by ball commentary, scorecard, match updates.

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West Indies beat England, West Indies won by 425 runs

WI 71 & 126 vs ENG 211 & 411/5d - West Indies won by 425 runs in Manchester, West Indies tour of England 1976, July 08 - 13, 1976

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WI vs AUS Live score - Australia tour of West Indies 1984 March 16 - 21, 1984 2nd Test in Port of Spain

West Indies vs Australia live cricket score, Australia tour of West Indies 1984, 2nd Test at Queen's Park Oval, Port of Spain, Trinidad. Get live score, ball by ball commentary, scorecard, match updates.

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WI vs AUS Live score - Australia tour of West Indies 1991 March 01 - 06, 1991 1st Test in Kingston

West Indies vs Australia live cricket score, Australia tour of West Indies 1991, 1st Test at Sabina Park, Kingston, Jamaica. Get live score, ball by ball commentary, scorecard, match updates.

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And hopefully this is the last that we'll see of this argument.

@subshakerz

 

[kyear2]

Why ?they both Averages 40+ and great records in sena .

Pant isn't a world class keeper and @capt_Luffy neither is Flower.

 

[kyear2]

though, that's the thing with someone like Viv, everyone had footage at the time, rewind, analysis, everything was available. But simply put, until Viv developed eye issues, he simply had no weaknesses, there was no one like him before him and there probably won't be anyone like him ever.

I don't think people who didn't live or, or care to read about it, understand how special Richards was.

No one could do what he did, to the guys he did it against. That's why he's up there with anyone in the BAB tier.

 

[kyear2]

Ok maybe I underrate both. I apologize.

Neither are world class, far less great.

Rizwan definitely closer though.

 

[Johan]

I don't think people who didn't live or, or care to read about it, understand how special Richards was.

No one could do what he did, to the guys he did it against. That's why he's up there with anyone in the BAB tier.

Yeah that's accurate, plus if Root can play at 60-65 SR, it shouldn't be awkward for the far greater and far more muscular Viv to do it with 70 SR. Anything to undermine older players these days imo

 

[kyear2]

don’t think Marshall is anymore of a lock than Gilchrist

I love Gilly, and for me an elite ATG.

But there's one keeper spot and two opening bowler ones.

One can also philosophically prefer the better keeper in Knott. I posted a video just a few days ago showing just that.

Every time we do a vote or select an all time team, Marshall is either 2nd or 3rd in votes, or first if Bradman is an automatic selection.

Gilly is normally behind those guys and possibly Sachin.

All two are solid though.

What's you argument against Marshall though?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I don't think people who didn't live or, or care to read about it, understand how special Richards was.

No one could do what he did, to the guys he did it against. That's why he's up there with anyone in the BAB tier.

Viv and Lara are the only 2 ATGs in the modern era averaging 50+ with 60+ strike rates. Ponting got very close though. Barry might have done it as well over a long career but we’ll never know I guess.