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tuffey vs harmison

whos better?

  • Tuffey(NZ)

    Votes: 23 56.1%
  • Harmison(ENG)

    Votes: 18 43.9%

  • Total voters
    41
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chicane

State Captain
luckyeddie said:
He didn't. You were the imaginative character who rated Pathan higher - marc purely said that 'it takes a great deal of imagination'.

That's Coventry-speak for saying that you're speaking out of somewhere the sun seldom shines
He started this -
marc71178 said:
You're the only one calling him greatest, but then since you're from India I guess he would count as a great quick compared to all the one's you've seen for your team!
It would take a lot of imagination to rate Harmison a great compared to Srinath and Pathan(no i'm not saying he's great). All I wanna say is Indian bowlers are not as crappy as you think. Many ppl have said Harmo is crap and you guys have responded strongly. Pathan has performed admirably against Australia as a rookie and then Pakistan. He's still a rookie but has great potential and has looked better than Harmo did at the start of his career. That's why ATM I rate him better.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
luckyeddie said:
Not at all.

He is either

a)the best bowler in the England side at the moment
or
b) you have made one of the most stupid, unsubstantiated, idiotic remarks it has been my pleasure to see on CricketWeb - well, in the last 10 minutes at least.

Note: on second thoughts, the two are not mutually exclusive.

You are the winner.
Well for all that you keep doing day in and day out 10 minutes is a short time indeed.

Well I concede he is the best bowler in England at present but about 47 bowlers in the world could be called that if they chose to play for England.

Tuffey doesnt.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
chicane said:
Pathan has performed admirably against Australia as a rookie and then Pakistan. He's still a rookie but has great potential and has looked better than Harmo did at the start of his career. That's why ATM I rate him better.
That's a reasonable statement, reasonably explained - and you are not in the barrel with koch_cha and a massive zebra (but SJS was last seen climbing up the steps).
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
SJS said:
Well for all that you keep doing day in and day out 10 minutes is a short time indeed.

Well I concede he is the best bowler in England at present but about 47 bowlers in the world could be called that if they chose to play for England.

Tuffey doesnt.
Very good of you to concede that.
Only 47 of the world's bowlers are better - and of those 47, Tuffey isn't one of them?

Don't choke on a fish while you're in there.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
koch_cha said:
his good performance have come in last 8 test and 6 of them where aganist the 8,10 ranked teams.let him play well aganist any three of the NZ,SA,AUS,IND,PAK,SL and then we can say he is a great bowler .for now he is only a GOOD TEST bowler and AVG ODI bowler
SL are by no means good players of pace bowling particularly on bouncy wickets....in fact you can put them alongside the WI in terms of not being able to cope with the bounce and pace. im sure if harmison had taken 41 wickets against SL you would have eliminated SL and put in WI.
pakistan?really?let me remind you that butler took 6 wickets against pakistan. if harmison had taken 41 wickets against them you would have said that doesnt count because pakistan are "inconsistent".
harmison did take 8 wickets in that final test match at the oval and despite all the ridiculous comments about what he did before that the fact is that since then he hasnt looked back.
if his only match against NZ he averages 25 and that on what was a much better wicket for batsman than it was for bowlers,and its not like this NZ batting lineup is weak now is it?
so all that leaves is australia(when he was his wayward self) and india(who he has barely played against), and im quite sure that you wont be prepared to rate him as a quality bowler until he gets a bucket full of wickets against them. no he is not the best bowler in the world but he has the potential to become one of the best bowlers ever for england...and considering alot of people seem to put irfan pathan on their world 11 teams after a couple of series i dont see why harmison shouldnt be rated as 'quality'
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
luckyeddie said:
That's a reasonable statement, reasonably explained - and you are not in the barrel with koch_cha and a massive zebra (but SJS was last seen climbing up the steps).
Eddie

What exactly is your problem ? Cant you be civil for a change ? I did not comment on Harmison for you to flair up like this although I dont see why you should even if I had.

I just stated, in what I thought was a sarcastic (read funny) way how this discussion had gone off the track. But you seem so intent on making this some big prestige issue that you see take offense even where a light hearted comment is made. I thought you said something about a sense of humour.

Cool off kid.
 

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
SJS said:
Eddie

What exactly is your problem ? Cant you be civil for a change ? I did not comment on Harmison for you to flair up like this although I dont see why you should even if I had.

I just stated, in what I thought was a sarcastic (read funny) way how this discussion had gone off the track. But you seem so intent on making this some big prestige issue that you see take offense even where a light hearted comment is made. I thought you said something about a sense of humour.

Cool off kid.
Don't worry, Eddie gets carried away with his analogies from time to time. :p
(btw, Eddie is a rather big kid.)
 

tooextracool

International Coach
chicane said:
All I wanna say is Indian bowlers are not as crappy as you think. Many ppl have said Harmo is crap and you guys have responded strongly. Pathan has performed admirably against Australia as a rookie and then Pakistan. He's still a rookie but has great potential and has looked better than Harmo did at the start of his career. That's why ATM I rate him better.
okay one thing that you must get straight....you dont rate a fast bowler better just because he performed better than the other at the start of their careers. pathan has had 2 series....yes hes bowled well and yes hes got potential but at an average of 38 i dont see how you can even whisper the words "better than harmison".
 

chicane

State Captain
tooextracool said:
okay one thing that you must get straight....you dont rate a fast bowler better just because he performed better than the other at the start of their careers. pathan has had 2 series....yes hes bowled well and yes hes got potential but at an average of 38 i dont see how you can even whisper the words "better than harmison".
We'll talk after Harmo plays tests against Australia and India.
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
SJS said:
Well for all that you keep doing day in and day out 10 minutes is a short time indeed.

Well I concede he is the best bowler in England at present but about 47 bowlers in the world could be called that if they chose to play for England.

Tuffey doesnt.
And if he did, he wouldn't be the best bowler in the England side.

I seem to be the one most at risk of calling Harmison a great bowler, so perhaps I should explain my view and how I got there.

I have found it hilarious that there are people who will calmly say that McGrath is a great bowler and Harmison hasn't got the potential. I saw McGrath bowl in 1994-95 and remember thinking that if that's all Australia had to replace Craig McDermott with, the 1997 Ashes would be a doddle. He was dreadful then, certainly as bad as Harmison was to start with.

And so I had a look at the cumulative averages compared of the two bowlers, and was very surprised to find that even as far as their 12th Tests, they were pretty even - before the WI series had even started. Then Harmison exploded into life, and his figures are now superior to McGrath's.

The other evening, provoked by the huge stripey horse, I dug out the stats for a whole load of bowlers, and was even more surprised by what I found.

The three bowlers who came top of the list were all supernovae, Tyson the most spectacular, but neither Botham nor Gillespie went on to match what they achieved in their first two-three years of Test cricket.

Harmison has followed the more conventional pattern of starting bad and getting better, and I was amazed to find that he has had the best such start of any English bowler since Trueman. And that his trajectory is comparable to people like Dennis Lillee and not like Devon Malcolm.

It seems incredibly mean-minded to disparage such an achievement, given that plenty of the other names around him on that list also got their early wickets against dross sides like England, not the mighty teams they themselves played for.

And, though it displays my feeble-mindedness, I am actually rather pleased that for the first time in fifty years, England have discovered a bowler who is matching what the great bowlers of the past and present have achieved, rather than sort-of-nearly-if-you-make-some-allowances-for-all-the-dropped-catches matching them, and who will join the pantheon if he continues in the same vein.

If he achieves nothing else in his career, then the first series victory in the Caribbean for 36 years will be his Frank Tyson moment - and even that's no small thing to be in the books for.

His career figures so far include not only the WI and the Bangles, but also what he did in other matches, just as the figures recorded by the other top bowlers include wickets against both good teams and bad.

Only time will tell whether Harmison is a great bowler or a shooting star who will be burned out in another 12 months. But if he doesn't burn out, he's the first genuine candidate for bowling greatness England have had in decades.

Cheers,

Mike
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
SJS said:
Eddie

What exactly is your problem ? Cant you be civil for a change ? I did not comment on Harmison for you to flair up like this although I dont see why you should even if I had.

I just stated, in what I thought was a sarcastic (read funny) way how this discussion had gone off the track. But you seem so intent on making this some big prestige issue that you see take offense even where a light hearted comment is made. I thought you said something about a sense of humour.

Cool off kid.

It was one of the most outrageous, hurtful statements which had ever been made to me on this site - utterly despicable. :blink:

Seriously, what's going on? You should never, ever take what I say on this message board seriously. I thought that you knew that by now... Ohhhhh, you're new!!! :p :p

I didn't call YOU silly for making the dumb statement, but if that's the impression you got, I apologise. It's a lot easier than trying to explain myself to you.

'Shooting fish in a barrel' is where this started - and oh for chrissakes I'm trying to explain things to a message board. How dumb is that? Just believe what you want, because I'm pretty sick of y(voice fades into distance)

Don't worry about Adamc - we ask him for advice then do the opposite :p
(btw Eddie is a bigger kid than Adamc thinks and has just sent his email and IP addresses to a porn site)

I'm cool.
 

biased indian

International Coach
England selector were not sure wether to take harmo to W.I or not

if he had shown such potential in his first 10 test
what was the there to think about
 

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
koch_cha said:
England selector were not sure wether to take harmo to W.I or not

if he had shown such potential in his first 10 test
what was the there to think about
Unfounded rumour.. and effective motivational tool.
 

SpaceMonkey

International Debutant
koch_cha said:
England selector were not sure wether to take harmo to W.I or not

if he had shown such potential in his first 10 test
what was the there to think about
That had nothing to do with his skill as a bowler but his commitment to bowling. As it was noted he didnt goto the Acadamy as often as the selectors liked while he was recovering from his back injury but stayed up north and trained on his own.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
koch_cha said:
England selector were not sure wether to take harmo to W.I or not

if he had shown such potential in his first 10 test
what was the there to think about
You're right - he's rubbish.
I have no idea what the selectors saw in him.
(actually, I have no idea what they saw in him. I thought that Cork was a much 'safer' option, but what do I know?)

Similarly, you could ask what on earth the Australian selectors ever saw in Shane Warne (what was it - 1-335 half way through his third test - surely they had seen enough?)
Glenn McGrath - still averaging over 40 after 10 or so tests.
What do you think the Australian selectors saw in them? Potential, I suppose.

Darn, that's torn it. Someone's now going to say that I said that Harmison is better than Warne and McGrath added together. In the barrel I go too.

Furthermore, I don't know what Bangladesh being 101-1 at lunch against the West Indies means for Harmison's history, how things are devalued further, but I'm sure one or two of you can enlighten me.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
chicane said:
Pathan has performed admirably against Australia as a rookie
And Harmison also impressed Australian viewers as a rookie...



chicane said:
He's still a rookie but has great potential and has looked better than Harmo did at the start of his career. That's why ATM I rate him better.
So because he's allegedly done better in his first 4 games then Harmison did in his, he's better than Harmison when you add all Harmison's other games and superb figures into the equation?
 
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twctopcat

International Regular
Bangladesh are holding up very nicely against the windies,even though they supposedly get out to anything above 80mph. How on earth did harmison get all those wickets? He can't actually bowl it to a spot can he?????
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
So because he's allegedly done better in his first 4 games then Harmison did in his, he's better than Harmison when you add all Harmison's other games and superb figures into the equation?
You got a problem with that? I haven't.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
luckyeddie said:
Furthermore, I don't know what Bangladesh being 101-1 at lunch against the West Indies means for Harmison's history, how things are devalued further, but I'm sure one or two of you can enlighten me.

Obvious - it shows that either the Bangladeshi's are better than some give them credit for or that the wickets in the Windies are really flat so wicket-taking is impossible...
 
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