Thilan Samaraweera: a victim of black magic?

[nightprowler10]

Very strong Matthew Hayden fan who has slight issues with letting things go.

You, sir, are a master of understatement.

 

[Richard]

Please don't tell me that I earlier read Richard saying Hayden is an inferior batsman to Samaraweera...

If so, it was merely to deliberately make a point of how stupid a post I was replying to was. Currently, there is absolutely no case that Samaraweera is a better Test batsman than Hayden was, and it's fairly unlikely that there ever will be either.

 

[Richard]

Age old scenario!

1. Someone makes an idiotic comment. ( This time it's Ben saying that sangakkara is a subcontinent bully)
BTW does any other poster agree that he really is? or was it jus some kind of a joke?

2. A post showing it's baseless logic (Migara's one) goes completely unnoticed.

3. Richard shows up to straighten matters.

4. Someone shows up to defend the idiotic post (Ikki this time,might have very easily been SOC)

4. Someone comes up with an imaginary statement (That richard said in this post it self that Hussein is better than Hayden)

5. As a diversion from Ben's post everyone merrily joins the age old Richard bashing game.

6, Mods call for a cease

7. some precamb or xuhaib-esque guy over reacts, and gets banned
(Richard is waaaaaaaaay too experienced so doesn't fall into that kind of trap)

8. Everyone lives happily there after.

The End

P.S- Dose any one disagree?

The End

P.S- Dose any one disagree?

If only.

Though how hard it is to believe,it seems to be the case.
Bliss at last!
Cheers

 

[Richard]

So you think that England and South African's, who are generally renound as poor players of spin, are going to perform equally as well subcontient batsman on subcontient pitches?

OK, so first subcontinental pitches offer nothing to any bowlers, now they're turners. Make your mind up.

Here's a tip, kid. Think and do some research on topics cricket related before you post, to avoid embarrassment.

Here's one for you: learn how to judge a cricketer rather than looking simplistically at a set of scorecards before trying to patronise those who know far more than you about the subject matter.

To avoid embarrasment, obviously.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

If so, it was merely to deliberately make a point of how stupid a post I was replying to was. Currently, there is absolutely no case that Samaraweera is a better Test batsman than Hayden was, and it's fairly unlikely that there ever will be either.

Cool.

As an aside, I'd like to know why you rated Younis Khan higher than the likes of Ponting and Kallis (assuming that's what you were implying earlier). It is just an interesting proposition.

 

[Richard]

I don't - at this stage, anyway. However, there's no way Ponting or Kallis are a league ahead of Younis Khan. If there's anything in it, it's not much.

 

[Migara]

Don't quite get the hype on Kumar Sangakkara on this forum. Good bat, definately, but I've seen many posts saying that his potentially one of the best batsman of the modern era. Kevin Pietersen is the only one I see getting close to Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid or Hayden in the near future, TBH.

LMAO. Pietersen against Murali was an epic fail. Yes, first he bashed Murali around in three innings. But thereafter, it was plain and simple domination by Murali over Pietersen. His stats in that SL tour speak for him self. Lara Ponting and Tendulkar are way superior batsmen than Pietersen. Dravid also didn't do well against best of the spinners, notably Murali.

Now everybody keeps bashing Mahela Jayawardane as a FTB. Out side subcontinet Jayawardane onlt averages 36.6 (without ZIM). Pietersen averages only 34.6 in the subcontinet and a great player. What f***king double standards?

Once more some smartasses think that playing outsuide sub continent values more.

 

[King Pietersen]

Pietersen on form smashed Murali about. When he toured Sri Lanka he was massively out of form, and suffering with the only spell of poor form in his career so far. He struggled in Sri Lanka, and then that poor form continued into New Zealand, where he battled on to make a very slow hundred by his standards. It was not an easy period for KP. He's only actually had 1 tour in the subcontinent when he's been in any sort of form, and that was the recent tour of India, where he averaged 49.66 in the series with 1 hundred. His series in India prior to that, and his one in Pakistan were right at the start of his Test career, where he was batting at 5, and still hadn't really had chance to work out his game. So those figures will improve when he tours Pakistan and Sri Lanka again, as he's proven in India that he can play in the subcontinent when he's in any sort of knick.

Pietersen will end his career as one of the greats of the modern era, I'm certain of it. He's played a 5th of his Test matches against the best side in the world, and still averages over 50. He averaged 52 at home at then 54 in Australia. Jayawardene averages 32 in Australia. I liked how you twisted the figures as well, taking Jayawardene's record outside Sri Lanka (including other subcontinental countries) and compared that with Pietersen's record in just the subcontinent. Their stats away from their home countries sit in favour of Pietersen, with Pietersen averaging 43 away from England, and Jayawardene averaging 41 away from Sri Lanka, and if you take out Jayawardene's record against Minnows (Bangladesh and Zimbabwe) his average drops to 38.

Jayawardene's a very good player, but Pietersen will end his career held in far higher regard.

 

[chaminda_00]

all modern batsmen are flat track bullies and would get owned by Barnes and co on bowler friendly pitches. everyone happy now, can we move on.

 

[Migara]

Pietersen on form smashed Murali about.
I liked how you twisted the figures as well, taking Jayawardene's record outside Sri Lanka (including other subcontinental countries) and compared that with Pietersen's record in just the subcontinent

Ha Ha, you are an epic fail. Pietersen got owned by murali even when he was in good form. Bring those memories about the WC and other ODIs. Murali ahd him groping even in the 3rd match in that test series.

Now subcontinet as a whole is critisiced of having flat tracks, which is not true. And SC should be given equal status to ROW, because 90% of cricketers ever to pick up a bat is from SC. Simple as that.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

OK, so first subcontinental pitches offer nothing to any bowlers, now they're turners. Make your mind up.

Here's one for you: learn how to judge a cricketer rather than looking simplistically at a set of scorecards before trying to patronise those who know far more than you about the subject matter.

To avoid embarrasment, obviously.

The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue. Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story

LMAO. Pietersen against Murali was an epic fail. Yes, first he bashed Murali around in three innings. But thereafter, it was plain and simple domination by Murali over Pietersen. His stats in that SL tour speak for him self. Lara Ponting and Tendulkar are way superior batsmen than Pietersen. Dravid also didn't do well against best of the spinners, notably Murali.

Now everybody keeps bashing Mahela Jayawardane as a FTB. Out side subcontinet Jayawardane onlt averages 36.6 (without ZIM). Pietersen averages only 34.6 in the subcontinet and a great player. What f***king double standards?

Once more some smartasses think that playing outsuide sub continent values more.

Epic Fail? LOOOOOL! Pietersen played the most impressive shot off Murali that I've ever seen. He murdered Muralitharan. That comment is almost signature worthy.

Playing outside the subcontient does offer more value, for subcontient batsman. As statistics show, only 3 subcontient batsman in the history of the game have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient.

 

[King Pietersen]

Pietersen also averaged over 50 against Muralitharan in England in 2006, hitting a massive 142 against him. Now if anything that's closer to KP owning Murali than the other way round, and 1 dismissal in a world cup game is not enough to suggest otherwise.

 

[Faceless void]

Ok that's it.
Migara mate, lets drop it. It astounds me how some are immune to logic.
I posted Hayden's and sanga's averages in an earlier post. Which i guess is invisible.
You can prove with all kind of statistics that what you say is true but there will be a selected few who will never budge.
I officially wash my hands off this topic.

 

[Richard]

The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue.

I know what I'm talking about far better than anyone who blindly looks at "ooh, Hayden dominates crap seam-bowling and averages 70 between 2001/02 and 2004 and 60 between 2005/06 and 2007/08, he must be good".

Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story

Assessing players on "a certain class when you watch them bat" is a notoriously unreliable method as this depends more on the ability of the bowlers than the batsman. If the bowling is inadaquete - and it mostly has been the last 7 years - then even a moderate batsman can look Godlike. The bowler controls the game, and it's how a batsman responds to high-quality bowling that demonstrates his ability best. How well he smashes the crap stuff is only a relatively minor aspect.

This is assessed by watching the bowling and considering scores (and not just the number at the end of the innings, but what happened within). Not just one or just the other.

It's pretty obvious to me that Hayden could not and never could counter high-quality seam-bowling, and to me anyone who refuses to acknowledge that either a) isn't looking hard enough or b) is just a blind Hayden fan who worships him because of the fact his success was so huge in Australia's success 2001/02-2006/07.

 

[Ikki]

or c) knows more about Cricket than you.

 

[Evermind]

Sangakkara averages 65 in Australia and 67 in New Zealand yet only 24.8 in India. (in tests)

Hayden Averages 58 in His own backyard, 28.14 in New Zealand yet has an average of 51 playing in India.

Yet Sangakkara is the subcontinent flat track bully who cant even get close to Hayden-the greatest ever opener.

Such words of wisdom!
That's all I have to say about this topic.If the guy still keeps on arguing I'll consider him logic proof and get busy with revising physiology for the upcoming exam.

Hmm...how did you manage to put ben91's x-ray into your avatar? Are you guys friends?

 

[Richard]

or c) knows more about Cricket than you.

No.

 

[0RI0N]

OK, so first subcontinental pitches offer nothing to any bowlers, now they're turners. Make your mind up.


The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue. Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story


Epic Fail? LOOOOOL! Pietersen played the most impressive shot off Murali that I've ever seen. He murdered Muralitharan. That comment is almost signature worthy.

Playing outside the subcontient does offer more value, for subcontient batsman. As statistics show, only 3 subcontient batsman in the history of the game have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient.

/
Okay I'll bite.
Which 3 batsmen would that be?
SM Gavaskar,SR Tendulkar and R Dravid?

 

[gwo]

Okay I'll bite.
Which 3 batsmen would that be?
SM Gavaskar,SR Tendulkar and R Dravid?

if you took your time to read some of this thread, you would find the answer

Yeah, these stats back me up perfectly.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

heres some good advice from evermind.

Here on CW, people generally read posts before theirs before they comment. I suggest you start doing the same, to avoid embarrassment.

I would say to you, good guesses, but hey, the information was already in this thread.

 

[Top_Cat]

Haha, I see wfdu_ben91 has been initiated into the forum, arguing with Richard about Hayden. It's like surgery without anesthetic but more painful.