The atmosphere in Cricket Chat - Suggestions & Discussion

[morgieb]

I think adding more moderators is the way to go. Too many of the mods generally post in OT rather than CC, and that doesn't need that much clearing up as CC, so we need a couple of CC regulars as mods.

 

[Streetwise]

There was a thread about how many wickets Lee would finish on created months ago, just recently Lee announced his retirement from tests and a thread was made for that. Both these threads were merged because a mod didnt want to many (2) threads about Lee, but at the same time there were about 5 threads on Tendulkar. I'm happy for the mods to run this board as they see fit. Maybe merging any thread that is a player v player into one thread will keep all the rubbish in one bin.

 

[andyc]

There was a thread about how many wickets Lee would finish on created months ago, just recently Lee announced his retirement from tests and a thread was made for that. Both these threads were merged because a mod didnt want to many (2) threads about Lee, but at the same time there were about 5 threads on Tendulkar. I'm happy for the mods to run this board as they see fit. Maybe merging any thread that is a player v player into one thread will keep all the rubbish in one bin.

But they're on totally different topics. Vs. threads have their place on the forum and you can't merge a 'Tendulkar vs. Ponting' and a 'Tendulkar vs. Richards' thread together just because they both involve Tendulkar. The issue isn't the quality of the threads, it's the discussion that's going on inside them.

For the record, I am and always have been against the idea of creating subforums, temporarily or otherwise. Like GIMH, I find the idea of 15 different mini-forums within CC just far too difficult and confusing.

 

[four_or_six]

Nah it happens all the time whether it be Modi vs FICA, Australians not wanting to tour or any issues that frames someone from one nationality in a positive or negative light. If people want to bring nationality into it, it'll happen and it doesn't help the cricketers and administrations are leading the charge.

Agree with this so much. By far the biggest turn-off for watching cricket at the moment for me.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Is there a forum mod whereby one could rep an entire thread, so to speak? If enough members feel that the discussion in a thread is going downhill fast, and they all negative rep it to a collective predetermined level, it gets locked for a period of say 24 hours to cool things down?

 

[Shri]

Just moderate the new members' posts for a month when they join. If there are any signs that show that he is just here to troll and stuff, make his future infractions harsher. Don't know what to do about older members like myself who stir ****.

 

[Sir Alex]

On the derailed thread topic, I dont know what zinzan (and uppercut) were hoping to achieve by mentioning voting patterns and bias and the like. Even if the observation is just what they say it is, merely an observation, it seems a rather redundant point to make. So I dont know what its all about. Too much poking sticks, intentional or otherwise, at Indian voters and Indian members on CW - been happening generally a bit too much of late too, IMO.

From the Richards vs Tendulakr ODIs thread.

JBH001 pretty much sums up what exactly is the issue with such comparison threads. I agree with him.

 

[GIMH]

Clear your schedule, what could be more important?

A good point well made, here are my disjointed thoughts for all of your reference. FTR I openly accept that I myself am guilty of some of the things I am about to say, I think everybody is. I'm not stating these as facts, please assume there is an IMO attached.

1. You know nothing about cricket - While I think SJS is marvellous and don't think he himself is guilty of this, I noticed before that someone said when he posts in a thread that should be the end of it. That for me is one of the biggest attitude problems here in CC - that some people's opinions don't count because they are less knowledgeable on the game, and vice versa. Well guess what, most of what gets discussed round here os opinion, and everyone is entitled to voice it. I've learnt a lot about cricket from this forum, I'd never claim to be an expert, but still I like to think that when I make serious contributions (as opposed to the please have my babies Stuart Broad posts I may make from time to time) I am decent enough. I hate this attitude that someone's opinion is worthless, and to newbies this place has become very intimidating. Let's drop the elitism down a notch, saying that "I win because you know nothing about cricket" is as bad as any personal insult you can throw out there, if not worse, in terms of making this a place that people will want to post.

2. Off-topic nature of discussions - I post at another forum (it's non-cricket, don't judge me) and tbh there are a lot of things I don't like about it, but I wanted to throw this out there. One of their rules is that topics stay on topic. Off topic posts are deleted as spam, repeat offenders are infracted. Now I think it can go a bit too far, you can find your post removed when you've replied to something a poster has said but isn't specifically related to what was referenced in the opening post, which can stagnate discussion, but at the same time it would prevent Ricky Ponting's record in India from being brought into a topic about who has the prettiest ODI kit. Sometimes the evolution of a thread can be fine but more often than not it's ridiculous and repetitive these days.

3. The line between banter and provocation - Now I love a bit of banter as much as the next guy. I think the line gets crossed far too often, though again this is a difficult one to police. I'm gonna shoot with an example I see as an England fan, pretty sure there are countless ones for everyone. See, it's all well and good making jokes about how nobody in the England team is English, and there can also be serious points made along that line. At the same time, there are clear instances of people just using this point to troll, to make snide remarks, as well as factually incorrect and inflammatory statements. I think joking about things is all well and good but when it becomes trolling then it's too much. Pretty sure you could probably apply this to, say anti-BCCI statements or whatever. Maybe I'm over-sensitive, dunno, just how I see it.

4. Precam - Am so bored of "you are precam" discussions in CC.

5. Oh no, not this **** again - When a relative newcomer posts a new thread that was discussed six months ago, the reaction can sometimes be pretty poor. Now newcomers have a duty to read rules and check for any duplication of threads, at the same time, us long-term members have a duty to be welcoming to members. I notice Jack usually posts if there's an instance of repetition by a n00b by saying "Welcome to the forums [name] . You can find this topic here [link]." I don't think you need to be a mod to do that, the mod can just formally close it - is it a lot to ask a senior member to help newbies out by making posts like that, you know, instead of "oh, FFS, not this **** again." And for the record I think sometimes things get over-merged. I don't see why a new discussion on something that was last discussed, say, six months ago needs to be in the same thread as the old one. I find that a bit stifling, also I'm less likely to participate in a thread if it looks like it's gained loads of posts dead quickly as I figure I won't have time to get through it all.

6. Multi-quote flame wars - I think breaking a post down here and there is fine, but it's clear that a line has been crossed. There has been one guy banned but let's face it, this happens plenty and it is the biggest cause of me not wanting to read a thread.

7. Race card - Pretty simple this one, the race card is thrown about now and again. Not frequently, and I must say only be a small minority, but it's ugly as hell. I think labelling someone a racist on the basis of flimsy evidence is a horrific thing to do, I really do, and I think doing this should be a bannable offence.

8. Report posts - I think we could all do with doing as Voltman said - reporting more posts. How often do people respond, rising to the bait or slamming a post, when a nice quick report could get the issue solved. And I'd bet if a few people reported the same post it's more likely to be dealt with. Similarly it's not helpful if we report a post and then argue with it anyway - it's something I've been working hard at because I know I've been guilty of that in the past. If you report a post, probably best ignoring it in terms of the thread, I reckon.

So, as I said, these are just my opinions, didn't see much point to add an IMO to every sentence, please discuss, ignore, report, whatever

 

[Top_Cat]

Ability to 'bury' individual posts via voting by other members so that once they pass a threshold decided upon by the mods, they won't be seen or are deleted.

-1 for more sub-forums but don't mind the hot topic idea.

 

[R_D]

How about restriction on who can create a new thread..... some of the newbie's create most useless threads..... remember some guy created 5 or 6 threads and that was his post count as well.
Maybe some sort of qualifying period like number of posts or maybe how long they have been part of the forum.

I do like the idea of a sub-forum where the hot topic can be discussed..... Ban the ****s who take every other threads off topic every time with their constant bickering because they are still trying to settle a score from their previous argument in another thread.

 

[GotSpin]

lol.. care to take a survey on where the CC threads are going wrong?

Mate I was only joking!

 

[GotSpin]

Just moderate the new members' posts for a month when they join. If there are any signs that show that he is just here to troll and stuff, make his future infractions harsher. Don't know what to do about older members like myself who stir ****.

It's usually the old hands creating trouble

 

[honestbharani]

Mate I was only joking!

Me too mate.. I was juz ribbing about the no. of poll threads, tbh..

 

[GotSpin]

Me too mate.. I was juz ribbing about the no. of poll threads, tbh..

Ah, well played indeed sir.

 

[Andre]

Interesting thread this one. Having been at the site since day 1 but these days an irregular poster (although I do visit the forum almost daily to read) I have been loath to comment on what has been happening as I'm not sure how it would be received (I understand that many of the heavy posters these days would have no idea who I am and dismiss posts out of hand).

Firstly I think it was inevitable that the forum would become a bit more of a hot bed once Sachin made the double hundred. These sorts of milestones and historic achievements tend to make the passionate fans all the more one eyed and the detractors somewhat more bitter about the player/situations - therefore what has always been a healthy agreed-to-disagree type scenario gets stretched, people become more passionate one way or the other and the happy medium becomes pretty blurred. One of the flipsides of having a passionate and knowledgeable posting group is that due to the passion of the poster for the game and their ability to back up their points of view with knowledge this wedge will get amplified when particularly topical and potentially emotive situations occur in our game.

There has been a concern for me though. Any new poster is treated with a certain amount of fear that they are some sort of multi or flamethrower or the like. This is completely unfair. Someone may have a similar opinion to current or past posters but it does not make them automatically linked to this person be either a past or present member. It is inevitable in a forum of this size that opinions will have been heard before in other ways - it's more a representation of the size of the pool rather than a re-incarnation of the past. Each new member deserves to be treated on face value and listened to equally unless it is absurdly obvious that they are here to cause trouble.

I also think there has been a bit of an inconsistency in the moderating which has allowed situations to fester more than required. If a newer or less spoken member attacks another or suggests something negative about a poster they tend to be governed far harsher than a regular poster who is blatantly insulting and abusing another member. I don't want to name names, but I can think of a fairly obvious case over the last week where a poster has got away with effectively blue murder in what they have said and how they have carried on in a certain situation. Most posters would not have been treated so leniently.

Sometimes just because someone has a large number of posts next to their name it does not mean that they are a particularly good poster. In fact quite often the opposite. There are some who feel it is their right to comment on every little situation, welcome every member, moderate every thread but in turn abuse other posters and cry foul when they are caught up on this. This is an example of where all posters need to be hit with the same stick with the moderators - otherwise the joint turns into a big boys club, and any potentially outstanding new posters who come along will elect not to get involved as there is no real way into discussion - effectively every thread would end up being about the same thing between the same members calling eachother the same petty names. We can all agree this is not what we want.

Moderating needs to be as consistent as possible and if a regular member steps out of line they need to be dealt with regardless of how bigger part they feel they play in the site. I know this may at times strain established friendships but you can't have one set of rules for the established and another for the non-established. There needs to be a clear line where people can have no doubt as to where it is and if they have overstepped it. People get into a comfort zone and stretch the rules - such is humanity - but there needs to be an affirming of what happens with the rules for all.

Moderating, I found, was as much about studying a trend of an individuals posts than a single post itself.

Also, however, we need to bare in mind that there is a strong melting pot of a number of cultures on this site. What is seen as humorous and clever in one culture can be seen as downright insulting in another. I know I am hesitant to get involved in humurous banter with posters other than the ones I know well as quite simply I just don't know how a sense of humour will be received by someone who is not of as like minded nature to myself.

Finally, posters probably need to think a bit more before starting new threads. It doesn't taske must research to figure if a point has already been covered and can be brought up again in the appropriate thread rather than clogging up CC with another similar thread to the one before. Also, if people have a half baked idea or suggestion or think that people need to know what they are thinking or want to do, there are probably better places to bring it up. Things like this leave people open to ridicule, and in turn this person becomes defensive and then aggressive. Think before you post, I suppose, is my message.

Essentially, though, in a large pool of a number of intellegent and well spoken personalities frustration will at times boil over. Sometimes, maybe that clever comment can be kept to the individual rather than posted for all to see just to save a bit of trouble.

Hope my post makes some sort of sense and is somewhat helpful...

 

[honestbharani]

A good point well made, here are my disjointed thoughts for all of your reference. FTR I openly accept that I myself am guilty of some of the things I am about to say, I think everybody is. I'm not stating these as facts, please assume there is an IMO attached.

1. You know nothing about cricket - While I think SJS is marvellous and don't think he himself is guilty of this, I noticed before that someone said when he posts in a thread that should be the end of it. That for me is one of the biggest attitude problems here in CC - that some people's opinions don't count because they are less knowledgeable on the game, and vice versa. Well guess what, most of what gets discussed round here os opinion, and everyone is entitled to voice it. I've learnt a lot about cricket from this forum, I'd never claim to be an expert, but still I like to think that when I make serious contributions (as opposed to the please have my babies Stuart Broad posts I may make from time to time) I am decent enough. I hate this attitude that someone's opinion is worthless, and to newbies this place has become very intimidating. Let's drop the elitism down a notch, saying that "I win because you know nothing about cricket" is as bad as any personal insult you can throw out there, if not worse, in terms of making this a place that people will want to post.

2. Off-topic nature of discussions - I post at another forum (it's non-cricket, don't judge me) and tbh there are a lot of things I don't like about it, but I wanted to throw this out there. One of their rules is that topics stay on topic. Off topic posts are deleted as spam, repeat offenders are infracted. Now I think it can go a bit too far, you can find your post removed when you've replied to something a poster has said but isn't specifically related to what was referenced in the opening post, which can stagnate discussion, but at the same time it would prevent Ricky Ponting's record in India from being brought into a topic about who has the prettiest ODI kit. Sometimes the evolution of a thread can be fine but more often than not it's ridiculous and repetitive these days.

3. The line between banter and provocation - Now I love a bit of banter as much as the next guy. I think the line gets crossed far too often, though again this is a difficult one to police. I'm gonna shoot with an example I see as an England fan, pretty sure there are countless ones for everyone. See, it's all well and good making jokes about how nobody in the England team is English, and there can also be serious points made along that line. At the same time, there are clear instances of people just using this point to troll, to make snide remarks, as well as factually incorrect and inflammatory statements. I think joking about things is all well and good but when it becomes trolling then it's too much. Pretty sure you could probably apply this to, say anti-BCCI statements or whatever. Maybe I'm over-sensitive, dunno, just how I see it.

4. Precam - Am so bored of "you are precam" discussions in CC.

5. Oh no, not this **** again - When a relative newcomer posts a new thread that was discussed six months ago, the reaction can sometimes be pretty poor. Now newcomers have a duty to read rules and check for any duplication of threads, at the same time, us long-term members have a duty to be welcoming to members. I notice Jack usually posts if there's an instance of repetition by a n00b by saying "Welcome to the forums [name] . You can find this topic here [link]." I don't think you need to be a mod to do that, the mod can just formally close it - is it a lot to ask a senior member to help newbies out by making posts like that, you know, instead of "oh, FFS, not this **** again." And for the record I think sometimes things get over-merged. I don't see why a new discussion on something that was last discussed, say, six months ago needs to be in the same thread as the old one. I find that a bit stifling, also I'm less likely to participate in a thread if it looks like it's gained loads of posts dead quickly as I figure I won't have time to get through it all.

6. Multi-quote flame wars - I think breaking a post down here and there is fine, but it's clear that a line has been crossed. There has been one guy banned but let's face it, this happens plenty and it is the biggest cause of me not wanting to read a thread.

7. Race card - Pretty simple this one, the race card is thrown about now and again. Not frequently, and I must say only be a small minority, but it's ugly as hell. I think labelling someone a racist on the basis of flimsy evidence is a horrific thing to do, I really do, and I think doing this should be a bannable offence.

8. Report posts - I think we could all do with doing as Voltman said - reporting more posts. How often do people respond, rising to the bait or slamming a post, when a nice quick report could get the issue solved. And I'd bet if a few people reported the same post it's more likely to be dealt with. Similarly it's not helpful if we report a post and then argue with it anyway - it's something I've been working hard at because I know I've been guilty of that in the past. If you report a post, probably best ignoring it in terms of the thread, I reckon.

So, as I said, these are just my opinions, didn't see much point to add an IMO to every sentence, please discuss, ignore, report, whatever

As the guy who mentioned about SJS posts, I have to say GIMH, I was mostly joking and just pointing out that he has a way of putting in words what most "moderate" posters want to say in a comparison thread... It was more of a compliment to him by way of exaggeration than anything else... Come on man, for a guy who worships Flintoff, you should know..



PS: Juz kidding, mate.. Big Flintoff and KP fan myself...

 

[andyc]

Is there a forum mod whereby one could rep an entire thread, so to speak? If enough members feel that the discussion in a thread is going downhill fast, and they all negative rep it to a collective predetermined level, it gets locked for a period of say 24 hours to cool things down?

TBH am a fan of closing a thread for a day or two if it's getting off topic or going downhill. Think the rep thing might be a bit tough to do but if posts are reported enough a mod could lock a thread and let it cool down.

 

[GIMH]

As the guy who mentioned about SJS posts, I have to say GIMH, I was mostly joking and just pointing out that he has a way of putting in words what most "moderate" posters want to say in a comparison thread... It was more of a compliment to him by way of exaggeration than anything else... Come on man, for a guy who worships Flintoff, you should know..



PS: Juz kidding, mate.. Big Flintoff and KP fan myself...

Yeah, fair enough about that point in itself, but I think the point in general still stands

 

[Fusion]

i don't know if a sub-forum for stat wars will help with the atmosphere...it might end up sterilizing cricket chat a little too much and a discussion on cricket really needs detailed statistical analysis as well...

My two cents:

If a stat war threatens to erupt in a thread (as in 2-3 members begin a back and forth that lasts for say more than 2 pages and threatens to hijack the thread) and some of the other members express their frustration, create another thread, depending on how relevant the mods feel the discussion is, they can create a sticky or just a regular thread...

Once that is done, firmly re-direct any such posts and posters to the new thread and let them drag it on as much as they want as long as they keep it civilized...

Regular posters should take it upon themselves to report 1. Posts resorting to personal insults 2. Threads veering completely off-topic 3. Deliberate spamming etc...this will probably help the mods keep things in line better...

The tendulkar vs (x, y, z) wasn't all bad, it did spawn the mangoes threads which were nice fun and helped take the edge off some of the heated exchanges in the other threads...

+1

 

[zaremba]

A good point well made, here are my disjointed thoughts for all of your reference. FTR I openly accept that I myself am guilty of some of the things I am about to say, I think everybody is. I'm not stating these as facts, please assume there is an IMO attached.

1. You know nothing about cricket - While I think SJS is marvellous and don't think he himself is guilty of this, I noticed before that someone said when he posts in a thread that should be the end of it. That for me is one of the biggest attitude problems here in CC - that some people's opinions don't count because they are less knowledgeable on the game, and vice versa. Well guess what, most of what gets discussed round here os opinion, and everyone is entitled to voice it. I've learnt a lot about cricket from this forum, I'd never claim to be an expert, but still I like to think that when I make serious contributions (as opposed to the please have my babies Stuart Broad posts I may make from time to time) I am decent enough. I hate this attitude that someone's opinion is worthless, and to newbies this place has become very intimidating. Let's drop the elitism down a notch, saying that "I win because you know nothing about cricket" is as bad as any personal insult you can throw out there, if not worse, in terms of making this a place that people will want to post.

2. Off-topic nature of discussions - I post at another forum (it's non-cricket, don't judge me) and tbh there are a lot of things I don't like about it, but I wanted to throw this out there. One of their rules is that topics stay on topic. Off topic posts are deleted as spam, repeat offenders are infracted. Now I think it can go a bit too far, you can find your post removed when you've replied to something a poster has said but isn't specifically related to what was referenced in the opening post, which can stagnate discussion, but at the same time it would prevent Ricky Ponting's record in India from being brought into a topic about who has the prettiest ODI kit. Sometimes the evolution of a thread can be fine but more often than not it's ridiculous and repetitive these days.

3. The line between banter and provocation - Now I love a bit of banter as much as the next guy. I think the line gets crossed far too often, though again this is a difficult one to police. I'm gonna shoot with an example I see as an England fan, pretty sure there are countless ones for everyone. See, it's all well and good making jokes about how nobody in the England team is English, and there can also be serious points made along that line. At the same time, there are clear instances of people just using this point to troll, to make snide remarks, as well as factually incorrect and inflammatory statements. I think joking about things is all well and good but when it becomes trolling then it's too much. Pretty sure you could probably apply this to, say anti-BCCI statements or whatever. Maybe I'm over-sensitive, dunno, just how I see it.

4. Precam - Am so bored of "you are precam" discussions in CC.

5. Oh no, not this **** again - When a relative newcomer posts a new thread that was discussed six months ago, the reaction can sometimes be pretty poor. Now newcomers have a duty to read rules and check for any duplication of threads, at the same time, us long-term members have a duty to be welcoming to members. I notice Jack usually posts if there's an instance of repetition by a n00b by saying "Welcome to the forums [name] . You can find this topic here [link]." I don't think you need to be a mod to do that, the mod can just formally close it - is it a lot to ask a senior member to help newbies out by making posts like that, you know, instead of "oh, FFS, not this **** again." And for the record I think sometimes things get over-merged. I don't see why a new discussion on something that was last discussed, say, six months ago needs to be in the same thread as the old one. I find that a bit stifling, also I'm less likely to participate in a thread if it looks like it's gained loads of posts dead quickly as I figure I won't have time to get through it all.

6. Multi-quote flame wars - I think breaking a post down here and there is fine, but it's clear that a line has been crossed. There has been one guy banned but let's face it, this happens plenty and it is the biggest cause of me not wanting to read a thread.

7. Race card - Pretty simple this one, the race card is thrown about now and again. Not frequently, and I must say only be a small minority, but it's ugly as hell. I think labelling someone a racist on the basis of flimsy evidence is a horrific thing to do, I really do, and I think doing this should be a bannable offence.

8. Report posts - I think we could all do with doing as Voltman said - reporting more posts. How often do people respond, rising to the bait or slamming a post, when a nice quick report could get the issue solved. And I'd bet if a few people reported the same post it's more likely to be dealt with. Similarly it's not helpful if we report a post and then argue with it anyway - it's something I've been working hard at because I know I've been guilty of that in the past. If you report a post, probably best ignoring it in terms of the thread, I reckon.

So, as I said, these are just my opinions, didn't see much point to add an IMO to every sentence, please discuss, ignore, report, whatever

Terrific contribution, this. I have convictions for offences 2, 4 and 6 in the past, but all your points are well made. I particularly agree with your points 1 and 5 and without naming names these tendencies can ruin my enjoyment of reading what otherwise excellent posters have to say.

CC has been at a pretty low ebb recently. I tend to agree with the thought that there's just not a lot of great cricket out there. Hence the dreadful low of the Sachin v ___________ threads. Perhaps some of the old hands should think up some new and interesting topics for threads to pull us out of it.