• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Do you mean as a bat or as a keeper?

He scored 100s in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka as and was lauded for his keeping to often inaccurate spinners in Asia.
I actually think on turning wickets an accurate spinner would be harder to keep to. Jadeja consistently challenging both edges with natural variation on a responsive pitch, ball after ball, would be exhausting and challenging. Whereas MacGill throwing in wide balls and half-trackers every over would be easier.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
I actually think on turning wickets an accurate spinner would be harder to keep to. Jadeja consistently challenging both edges with natural variation on a responsive pitch, ball after ball, would be exhausting and challenging. Whereas MacGill throwing in wide balls and half-trackers every over would be easier.
Well Ajaz Patel is very accurate. I think keeping to Ish Sodhi's pies would be harder though
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I actually think on turning wickets an accurate spinner would be harder to keep to. Jadeja consistently challenging both edges with natural variation on a responsive pitch, ball after ball, would be exhausting and challenging. Whereas MacGill throwing in wide balls and half-trackers every over would be easier.
Nah, an accurate spinner would allow you to position yourself and move with consistency. You'd also have to move less meaning less fatigue.

Gilchrist's said that Bevan was the most difficult he bowler he kept to. A quick, inaccurate wrist spinner with a hard to pick action.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Nah, an accurate spinner would allow you to position yourself and move with consistency. You'd also have to move less meaning less fatigue.

Gilchrist's said that Bevan was the most difficult he bowler he kept to. A quick, inaccurate wrist spinner with a hard to pick action.
In most conditions, yes. On a sharp turning dustbowl, no. Especially when the more accurate ones are quicker through the air.
 
Last edited:

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
In most conditions, yes. On a sharp turning dustbowl, no. Especially when the more accurate ones are quicker through the air.
No. Firstly, inaccurate bowlers are still capable of making the ball skid, so they're still doing the 'challenge both edges thing', but with enormously more uncertainty. Secondly I don't know why you're specifying the accurate bowlers being quick though the air - as with the Bevan example, you get quick inaccurate bowlers, and the faster they are the harder the inaccuracy will be ideal with.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
No. Firstly, inaccurate bowlers are still capable of making the ball skid, so they're still doing the 'challenge both edges thing', but with enormously more uncertainty. Secondly I don't know why you're specifying the accurate bowlers being quick though the air - as with the Bevan example, you get quick inaccurate bowlers, and the faster they are the harder the inaccuracy will be ideal with.
You're not adding anything I've not considered. I've kept a large variety of spin bowlers, including first-class cricketers and 1 or 2 internationals. I'm not saying "I'm right, you're wrong" just pointing out that if I am wrong, it's not because I'm missing something simple like "you have to move more".

Assuming the more accurate bowlers are the quicker ones is a bit of a generalisation, it's obviously not always the case. I can tell you as someone who has kept for full days, as well as 100-120 over innings over consecutive days before, an accurate darty spinner like a Jadeja or Axar would be exhausting to keep to on a wicket that is turning square for everyone
 

Coronis

International Coach
You're not adding anything I've not considered. I've kept a large variety of spin bowlers, including first-class cricketers and 1 or 2 internationals. I'm not saying "I'm right, you're wrong" just pointing out that if I am wrong, it's not because I'm missing something simple like "you have to move more".

Assuming the more accurate bowlers are the quicker ones is a bit of a generalisation, it's obviously not always the case. I can tell you as someone who has kept for full days, as well as 100-120 over innings over consecutive days before, an accurate darty spinner like a Jadeja or Axar would be exhausting to keep to on a wicket that is turning square for everyone
Are you sure you weren’t just a crappy keeper?
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Care to expand?
Sectarianism was strong in Aus at that time. The majority of Australians were white and either descended from Irish (Catholics) or English (Protestant/Masons). There was hostility between the two groups. Catholics were more union focussed generally while Protestaht/Masons generally ran their own small/medium businesses. It’s a largely forgotten element of Aus history, Aus wasn’t multicultural then and this was a significant divide as I understand it.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Sectarianism was strong in Aus at that time. The majority of Australians were white and either descended from Irish (Catholics) or English (Protestant/Masons). There was hostility between the two groups. Catholics were more union focussed generally while Protestaht/Masons generally ran their own small/medium businesses. It’s a largely forgotten element of Aus history, Aus wasn’t multicultural then and this was a significant divide as I understand it.
Thanks
 

GoodAreasShane

Cricketer Of The Year
Australian Domestic interesting initials XI:

ACI Lovell
MWG Harvey
SPD Smith (c)
PSP Handscomb
HWR Cartwright
BAD Manenti
LAH Scott
HPA Matthias (wk)
HTRJY Thornton
JSD Buckingham
LRT Morris

JJS Sangha, HNA Conway and LCJ Guthrie as reserves

Not as bad as I thought imo. Dire opening partnership, pretty good middle order, dangerous if a little hit and miss with the bowling attack. Probably forgetting someone super obvoius though.
 

R!TTER

State Regular
Nah, an accurate spinner would allow you to position yourself and move with consistency. You'd also have to move less meaning less fatigue.
Not really, with the pitches turning as much as they do these days, in Asia, or the uneven bounce there's no telling how much turn/bounce you would get even for the same delivery on the same spot. Pitches in India especially have become much much tougher post 2012/13 in general barring the odd flat deck served up. The biggest thing for me is how the keeper reads the deliveries, in that I'd say over the last 10-15 years Foakes has been the best away keeper I've seen by far! Keeping to good vs bad spinners isn't really an issue for a competent WK & if you ask them it probably doesn't matter/differ much, unless they're serving utter dross or unplayable balls every over.
 

Coronis

International Coach
Australian Domestic interesting initials XI:

ACI Lovell
MWG Harvey
SPD Smith (c)
PSP Handscomb
HWR Cartwright
BAD Manenti
LAH Scott
HPA Matthias (wk)
HTRJY Thornton
JSD Buckingham
LRT Morris

JJS Sangha, HNA Conway and LCJ Guthrie as reserves

Not as bad as I thought imo. Dire opening partnership, pretty good middle order, dangerous if a little hit and miss with the bowling attack. Probably forgetting someone super obvoius though.
When I was a kid, I liked to think opposition always thought God Dammit McGrath seeing his name pop up.
 

Qlder

International Regular
Was thinking that Australia always seemed to have an ATG batsman, it's like they passed the torch since Bradman.

Don Bradman - Neil Harvey - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Steve Waugh - Ricky Ponting - Steve Smith.

The only gap was between Harvey retiring in 1963 and Greg Chappell debuting in 1970, however Australia had Bob Simpson, Bill Lawry, Ian Chappell and Doug Walters (I'd claim Walters #1 if he wasn't conscripted and missed 2 years of cricket after debut)

I thought I'd take it further and look at who scored the most runs per decade

1930's - Don Bradman - 4625 @ 102.77
1940's - Don Bradman - 1903 @ 105.72
1950's - Neil Harvey - 4573 @ 50.25
1960's - Bill Lawry - 4717 @ 49.65
1970's - Greg Chappell - 4398 @ 52.98
1980's - Allan Border - 7386 @ 55.11
1990's - Mark Waugh - 6371 @ 41.64
2000's - Ricky Ponting - 9458 @ 58.38
2010's - Steve Smith - 7164 @ 62.84

Mark Waugh was the biggest surprise (just ahead of Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh)
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Was thinking that Australia always seemed to have an ATG batsman, it's like they passed the torch since Bradman.

Don Bradman - Neil Harvey - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Steve Waugh - Ricky Ponting - Steve Smith.

The only gap was between Harvey retiring in 1963 and Greg Chappell debuting in 1970, however Australia had Bob Simpson, Bill Lawry, Ian Chappell and Doug Walters (I'd claim Walters #1 if he wasn't conscripted and missed 2 years of cricket after debut)

I thought I'd take it further and look at who scored the most runs per decade

1930's - Don Bradman - 4625 @ 102.77
1940's - Don Bradman - 1903 @ 105.72
1950's - Neil Harvey - 4573 @ 50.25
1960's - Bill Lawry - 4717 @ 49.65
1970's - Greg Chappell - 4398 @ 52.98
1980's - Allan Border - 7386 @ 55.11
1990's - Mark Waugh - 6371 @ 41.64
2000's - Ricky Ponting - 9458 @ 58.38
2010's - Steve Smith - 7164 @ 62.84

Mark Waugh was the biggest surprise (just ahead of Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh)
Before Don as well they had MaCartney and before him Trumper, both considered the 3rd and 2nd best Aussie bats (Trumper was even sometimes considered no 1) well into the 70s
 

Qlder

International Regular
Before Don as well they had MaCartney and before him Trumper, both considered the 3rd and 2nd best Aussie bats (Trumper was even sometimes considered no 1) well into the 70s
Yes, you could also start with Clem Hill in 1896 so ATG batting torch has been passed for 128 years. Wondering if this is just an Aussie thing always having an ATG bat in the team?
 
Last edited:

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Yes, you could also start with Clem Hill in 1896 so ATG batting torch has been passed for 128 years. Wondering if this is just an Aussie thing always having an ATG bat in the team?
Could argue for the English to be even older.

Grace-Shrewsbury-Ranji-Hobbs-Hammond-Hutton-May-Boycott-Gooch(?)-Thorpe(??)-Cook(?)-Root
 

Top