The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[bagapath]

The 39ers and 29ers XI

Victor Trumper
Alec Stewart +
Clem Hill *
Vijay Manjrekar
Larry Gomes
Shakib al Hasan
Kapil Dev
Chaminda Vaas
Anil Kumble
Saqlain Mushtaq
Garth McKenzie


top 6 batters average 39 with the bat. Main 5 bowlers average 29 with the ball.

 

[trundler]

The 39ers and 29ers XI

Victor Trumper
Alec Stewart +
Clem Hill *
Vijay Manjrekar
Larry Gomes
Shakib al Hasan
Kapil Dev
Chaminda Vaas
Anil Kumble
Saqlain Mushtaq
Garth McKenzie


top 6 batters average 39 with the bat. Main 5 bowlers average 29 with the ball.

No Botham?

 

[AndrewB]

No Botham?

He averaged 28 with the ball.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

The 39ers and 29ers XI

Victor Trumper
Alec Stewart +
Clem Hill *
Vijay Manjrekar
Larry Gomes
Shakib al Hasan
Kapil Dev
Chaminda Vaas
Anil Kumble
Saqlain Mushtaq
Garth McKenzie


top 6 batters average 39 with the bat. Main 5 bowlers average 29 with the ball.

Shouldn't it be 31, since that's, like 39 with the bat, the "wrong side" of a milestone?

although that would end up with something like Shakib, Jack Gregory, Tuffey, Harmison, Mohammad Amir (or Nel). Guess you could pick another 39 batsman.

 

[AndrewB]

I was wondering what's the strongest XI you can make who've all played the same number of Tests (excluding current players). The most experienced is the 58 Test club:

Gautam Gambhir
Neil McKenzie
Syd Gregory
John R Reid
Asif Iqbal
Tony Greig*
Prasanna Jayawardene+
Wilfred Rhodes
Darren Gough
Joel Garner
Bhagwath Chandrasekhar

(all the available players excluding Johnny Bairstow), which isn't a bad team, and pretty balanced given the lack of choice.

The next possible team is from the 46 Test club:

Arthur Morris
Farokh Engineer+
Greg Blewett
Nawab of Pataudi jr*
JP Duminy
Jim Parks
Abdul Razzaq
Geoff Lawson
Jim Laker
Shoaib Akhtar
Angus Fraser

which has Chris Old, Jerome Taylor and Guy Whittall as reserves. Bit of a long tail, and I think generally a weaker team.

The 44 Test XI I think is better, although this time the bowling is a bit thin (the only alternative available is Khaled Mashud as keeper):

Conrad Hunte
Vinoo Mankad
Clyde Walcott
Basil Butcher
Taufeeq Umar
Basil D'Oliveira
Russel Arnold
Nayan Mongia+
Alan Davidson
Philip DeFreitas
Stuart MacGill

For lower numbers of Tests, picking an XI tends to be a slightly frustrating exercise where the bowling looks pretty good but the batting is weak, or (less often) vice versa, or all the good bowlers are spinners, or the balance is OK but there aren't many really classy players. A strong example is the 27 Test XI, which has a great attack, but a long tail following a moderate batting line-up:

Reg Simpson
Shahid Afridi
Bob Cowper
Darren Lehmann
Joe Solomon
Wayne Phillips+
Ryan Harris
Bill Voce
Bill O'Reilly
Colin Croft
Syd Barnes

 

[Bolo]

The boring solution is zero. You could put together a bunch of teams that would compete with any actual number.

One or more single digit options probably gives you a really strong team. Would take a lot of time sorting through unfamiliar players to get an answer though.

 

[bagapath]

Shouldn't it be 31, since that's, like 39 with the bat, the "wrong side" of a milestone?

although that would end up with something like Shakib, Jack Gregory, Tuffey, Harmison, Mohammad Amir (or Nel). Guess you could pick another 39 batsman.

that batsman would be Mushtaq

 

[TheJediBrah]

Reg Simpson
Shahid Afridi
Bob Cowper
Darren Lehmann
Joe Solomon
Wayne Phillips+
Ryan Harris
Bill Voce
Bill O'Reilly
Colin Croft
Syd Barnes

That's genuinely an ATG bowling attack right there. What are the odds that they'd all have played 27 Tests

 

[bagapath]

Ryan Harris and
Bruce Reid
Also played 27 tests.

 

[stephen]

We just need one more player to give Bradman a game, though almost the entire team are batsmen.

52 test club:


DG Bradman (AUS) 99.94
SL Campbell (WI) 32.38
JV Coney (NZ) 37.57
DM Jones (AUS) 46.55
AL Logie (WI) 35.79
RS Mahanama (SL) 29.27
Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) bowl 32.97
MR Ramprakash (ENG) 27.32
JN Rhodes (SA) 35.66
IJL Trott (ENG) 44.08

 

[harsh.ag]

For lower numbers of Tests, picking an XI tends to be a slightly frustrating exercise where the bowling looks pretty good but the batting is weak, or (less often) vice versa, or all the good bowlers are spinners, or the balance is OK but there aren't many really classy players. A strong example is the 27 Test XI, which has a great attack, but a long tail following a moderate batting line-up:

Reg Simpson
Shahid Afridi
Bob Cowper
Darren Lehmann
Joe Solomon
Wayne Phillips+
Ryan Harris
Bill Voce
Bill O'Reilly
Colin Croft
Syd Barnes

That's genuinely an ATG bowling attack right there. What are the odds that they'd all have played 27 Tests

So cricket has a 27 club too. Afridi our Cobain?

 

[trundler]

It is insane to think Moeen Ali and Bradman have played almost the same number of matches.

 

[Bolo]

So cricket has a 27 club too. Afridi our Cobain?

I like the timeline where Afridi doesn't give up test cricket. He had some real talent as a bat. His masterplan of destroying it one slog at a time was pretty far advanced by the time he quit tests, but a mid 30s average shows there was still something there. No idea where he would have ended up. Could have been an ATG batting allrounder in the warm and fuzzy timeline. Or an utterly mediocre bits and pieces player. Would have been interesting to find out, and maybe test batting would have reminded him that running down the wicket and slogging isn't the only shot in ODIs.

 

[AndrewB]

Ryan Harris and
Bruce Reid
Also played 27 tests.

Harris is in the team (batting higher than normal). There's a case for picking Reid ahead of Voce; Voce at least adds a bit more strength to the long tail.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I like the timeline where Afridi doesn't give up test cricket. He had some real talent as a bat. His masterplan of destroying it one slog at a time was pretty far advanced by the time he quit tests, but a mid 30s average shows there was still something there. No idea where he would have ended up. Could have been an ATG batting allrounder in the warm and fuzzy timeline. Or an utterly mediocre bits and pieces player. Would have been interesting to find out, and maybe test batting would have reminded him that running down the wicket and slogging isn't the only shot in ODIs.

Or genuine all-rounder, or bowling all-rounder. He was about good enough to be a specialist bowler, even in Tests.

 

[stephen]

Reid was a gun and if he wasn't permanently broken he'd have been an ATG.

 

[Red]

Nicest guys in cricket XI.

With Cook retiring I thought it'd be decent to have a nicest guys on and off the field XI. Genuinely nice guys only. No ****-ish aspects to a personality at all.

Alistair Cook
Arthur Morris
Rahul Dravid
Frank Worrell *
Victor Trumper
Doug Walters
Imran Khan
Richie Benaud
Shaun Pollock
Godfrey Evans +
Malcolm Marshall

Keith Miller

 

[andmark]

Nicest guys in cricket XI.

With Cook retiring I thought it'd be decent to have a nicest guys on and off the field XI. Genuinely nice guys only. No ****-ish aspects to a personality at all.

Alistair Cook
Arthur Morris
Rahul Dravid
Frank Worrell *
Victor Trumper
Doug Walters
Imran Khan
Richie Benaud
Shaun Pollock
Godfrey Evans +
Malcolm Marshall

Keith Miller

Richard Hadlee could be worth a mention in that team, possibly ahead of Pollock or Miller.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nicest guys in cricket XI.

With Cook retiring I thought it'd be decent to have a nicest guys on and off the field XI. Genuinely nice guys only. No ****-ish aspects to a personality at all.

Alistair Cook
Arthur Morris
Rahul Dravid
Frank Worrell *
Victor Trumper
Doug Walters
Imran Khan
Richie Benaud
Shaun Pollock
Godfrey Evans +
Malcolm Marshall

Keith Miller

Mike Hussey ahead of most in that team IMO

 

[stephen]

Gilly a good shout for the keeper spot too.