The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[The Sean]

The Chappell brothers were both brilliant at slip, though I only really saw Greg in action.

Well before my time, but by all accounts (and numbers), Bob Simpson and Wally Hammond rank as two of the very best ever.

 

[h_hurricane]

Was Mark Taylor really that good? Definitely none better than Mark Waugh though

Taylor gets credit for possibly the most ridiculously good slip catch ever, the one where he fell over and kicked the ball up to himself

He was damn good. One of the ATG slip fielders. One catch which immediately comes to mind was his catch of Tendulkar off Warne in the first test of 1998 series. Tendulkar came in trying to attack Warne every ball, was a bit loose, edged a sharply turning delivery, and Taylor caught it without a semblance of difficulty. His anticipation and reflexes were remarkable. Of course, Sachin played the same way the rest of the series and owned Warne .

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Ian Botham was the best. He stood there with his hands on his knees and only bothered moving if the ball was coming. He still caught everything. Like everything else he did it was only for a limited time span of course.

 

[Spark]

not challenging you. but am curious to know who you would call the standout slip fielders.
I would put mark waugh and mark taylor up there.

Yeah those are the first two names that come to mind as well. Hayden was also not necessarily flashy but extremely reliable, basically never dropped anything he could reach and his size meant he could reach a hell of a lot.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hayden was particularly good to Warne too

Ian Botham was the best. He stood there with his hands on his knees and only bothered moving if the ball was coming. He still caught everything. Like everything else he did it was only for a limited time span of course.

That's what she said

 

[Spark]

But yeah as a general rule I think the truly top tier slip fielders won't actually have that many spectacular full-length dive catches to their name, because their anticipation, body position and technique will mean they rarely have to take catches like that. It's the lower tier of slip fielders, the ones with less good anticipation, poorer body height or footwork who will have more of a catalogue of their catches because they'll be forced to take them more often, and their sheer natural hand-eye coordination (no surprise these are always great batsmen) will compensate so they'll always take more than a few. But overall you'd prefer the former.

EDIT: Also they'll be at first and second slip more than third, which is where you often see the big dives coming out

 

[kyear2]

Wouldn't exactly call Smith the greatest slip fielder I've seen though. Solid, but not a standout of the ones I've seen.

Probably not the absolute greatest, but when choosing from the ATG bats, he's among the best.

 

[kyear2]

Kallis was an awesome slip catcher. Very safe and could pull off screamers. I dohave a preference for slippers like Taylor/Jayawardene/Dravid though who also showed they could be brilliant fielding in the slips to a spinner. Very different kind of challenge which kallis probably didnt get the chance to show how good he was.

Think Kallis is just underrated at everything. Arguable top 10 batsman, superb top tier slip fielder and potentially top 3 5th bowling option?

What more could he have done.

 

[trundler]

Won matches

 

[_00_deathscar]

Think Kallis is just underrated at everything. Arguable top 10 batsman, superb top tier slip fielder and potentially top 3 5th bowling option?

What more could he have done.

Yea which just shows that it doesn’t really matter - he was obviously a top player and a proper complete package too.

But there’s something else about most of those rated above him…

 

[Coronis]

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[kyear2]

Mark Waugh is universally seen as among the very best, and Taylor was also very safe, if not as brilliant.

The best I've seen was Richie Richardson, especially at 3rd. Hooper was special, I've seen ABdV take some screamers at 3rd as well. Lloyd was very good, so was Hayden and Ponting.

Some names from the past would have been the Chappell, Hammond, Sobers, Weeks, Simpson

 

[kyear2]

Yea which just shows that it doesn’t really matter - he was obviously a top player and a proper complete package too.

But there’s something else about most of those rated above him…

Aesthetics and perception of being selfish?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Aesthetics and perception of being selfish?

In the end statistics aren't everything (particularly in sport). I don't think there's anyone sane who doesn't consider Kallis top class. But considering statistically he was better than almost all of his peers, and then added a 2nd and 3rd element to his play (both of which he was at least decent at if not very good for his role), then you'd think he'd be an absolute lock. He has a huge advantage/gulf over every batsman at the primary skill he's competing with (and even in that skill, he has a better average than most).

But he isn't a lock (and it's not just cos of Sobers either IMO) - in fact most wouldn't pick him for the first team, some wouldn't pick him for the second team and so on.

And if he is picked, it won't be in his favoured #4 position - he would be moved around, accomodated, so someone else could fill the #4 slot.

 

[_00_deathscar]

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

What's that supposed to point to? Is there any (top/decent) batsman in history who doesn't have a better average when his team wins?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What's that supposed to point to? Is there any (top/decent) batsman in history who doesn't have a better average when his team wins?

Well for highest average in wins it is Bradman who averaged 130, then Steve Smith, Williamson, big Inzi, and Sobers all in the 77-79 range. Kallis at 62 in wins is quite a long way down the list.

 

[TheJediBrah]

But yeah as a general rule I think the truly top tier slip fielders won't actually have that many spectacular full-length dive catches to their name, because their anticipation, body position and technique will mean they rarely have to take catches like that.

This isn't generally the case, but I see why you would think that and it is probably the case for some. Same as for a wicket keeper, it doesn't matter how good your movement and "anticipation" is, there will be occassions where the ball is out of your reach and will need a full-length dive to get to.

 

[JBMAC]

I have noticed no one has mentioned Colin Cowdrey whom I believe was one of the best "slippers" around followed very closely by Greg Chappell

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Colin Cowdrey

Mooooooo ?

 

[kyear2]

I have noticed no one has mentioned Colin Cowdrey whom I believe was one of the best "slippers" around followed very closely by Greg Chappell

Knew there was a few names I missed out.

Anyone can say how good Sunny was?