The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Spark]

I don't understand this. What are you warning everyone on? Not staying on topic and making poor argument is against forum rules and can get you infractions/bans?

EDIT: OK, I do get the last sentence of the post.

It's textbook baiting.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Top 5 most enjoyable Test series' I've witnessed in my lifetime.

India v Australia '01 - The all-conquering Australian side, 16 wins on the trot after having smashed India in the first Test. Looked to be business as usual.. and then THAT partnership. Yes, dreams can come true.

West Indies v Australia '99 - For obvious, princely reasons. Was a shame WI couldn't close it off in the final Test.

Australia v India '18/19 - Never thought I would ever see this happen. Prior to the start of the series I had seen (what i believed at the time) better Indian sides fail in Aus, but then Jasprit Bumrah happened.

Australia v South Africa 08/09 - After having being routinely beaten, it was a breath of fresh air to see this remarkable South African side get one over the Aussies on their home soil. AB's knock in the first Test is the stuff of legends.

Ashes '05 - Yeah, I know it's low on the list but that's cause England & Australia are my two least favourite teams. Captivating series, though.

India australia 2017>>>>>>2018/19 as a series

 

[stephen]

Burgey should block Sunilz for the sake of his infraction account. Tbh I can't blame him for giving Sunilz a spray.

 

[stephen]

Umm no. Steve Smith is on a plane of his own atm but he's not had 3 Lara '99 series. '99 was vs an atg attack and team and Lara was a one man army with 2 once in a lifetime innings. I get the hype around Smith but this is taking it too far. Smith's efforts are more akin to SL '01 where Lara scored 688 in 3 tests vs murali and vaas

Ok even if you take out the home series against England, that still leaves this series where ball has completely dominated bat and India 2017 where the ball was turning square and Smith dominated both series against a strong pace attack and the world's best spin battery both in friendly pitches. In both cases he's had little support.

 

[sunilz]

Burgey should block Sunilz for the sake of his infraction account. Tbh I can't blame him for giving Sunilz a spray.

Will this be considered baiting or not ?

 

[mr_mister]

Random poster from AUS : Smith is the 2nd best batsman after Bradman
Sunilz : But he can't even win you a test series in Bangladesh.
Random poster from AUS : Bradman would make sure AUS ATXI would comfortably smash WI ATXI and average 100 against WI pace quartet.
Sunilz : So why can't 2nd best after Bradman atleast win you a series in BAN, SL , PAK , IND
Random poster from AUS : Mate you are a multi of cevno , precam etc.

I don't think your questions in this hypothetical are particularly clever/cutting

Smith getting 3 tons in India was amazing, not getting us the series win is irrelevant as he doesn't bowl so has no control over India's innings. and still needs partners to get runs for his own team of course just like Bradman did with Ponsford, Mccabe and Morris

Smith is/will be the second best after Bradman simply due to consistent output of runs and that's all I'll judge him on. Series wins rely too much on the 10 other players and shouldn't be used as a measurement tool for the individual batsman

 

[trundler]

The real point to note is that Smith's first chance average is 42 according to my spreadsheet but after era adjustment that's 55.34.

 

[stephen]

I don't think your questions in this hypothetical are particularly clever/cutting

Smith getting 3 tons in India was amazing, not getting us the series win is irrelevant as he doesn't bowl so has no control over India's innings. and still needs partners to get runs for his own team of course just like Bradman did with Ponsford, Mccabe and Morris

Smith is/will be the second best after Bradman simply due to consistent output of runs and that's all I'll judge him on. Series wins rely too much on the 10 other players and shouldn't be used as a measurement tool for the individual batsman

Yeah it's not like people think less of Lara because the West Indies lost in 1999.

 

[stephen]

Will this be considered baiting or not ?

No more than this comment.

 

[a massive zebra]

Yeah it's not like people think less of Lara because the West Indies lost in 1999.

They didn't.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah it's not like people think less of Lara because the West Indies lost in 1999.

Well they drew , but people probably do think less of him because Lara'd get even more praise than he does if WI did win.

 

[sunilz]

I don't think your questions in this hypothetical are particularly clever/cutting

Smith getting 3 tons in India was amazing, not getting us the series win is irrelevant as he doesn't bowl so has no control over India's innings. and still needs partners to get runs for his own team of course just like Bradman did with Ponsford, Mccabe and Morris

Smith is/will be the second best after Bradman simply due to consistent output of runs and that's all I'll judge him on. Series wins rely too much on the 10 other players and shouldn't be used as a measurement tool for the individual batsman

And what is your excuse for him not getting AUS series win in SL , BAN ?
Some of the posters here have already declared him 2nd best after Bradman . Yet he isn't able to win you series in SL , BAN despite having such a good bowling attack .

 

[mr_mister]

And what is your excuse for him not getting AUS series win in SL , BAN ?
Some of the posters here have already declared him 2nd best after Bradman . Yet he isn't able to win you series in SL , BAN despite having such a good bowling attack .

I think Bangladesh is an extremely small sample size and am scratching my head why you keep bringing it up

He got a ton in the 3 test SL series, he did okay

Say England win this final test due to Paines poor decision at the toss does this drawn series suddenly make Smith's feats not as good the past month?

Don't judge a batsman by series victories is all I'm saying. Judge them by runs

 

[vcs]

Sachin was getting hailed (justifiably) as the best since Bradman around '99, and I'm not sure if he'd even participated in an overseas Test win, much less a Test series. The two things don't have much to do with each other.

 

[sunilz]

I think Bangladesh is an extremely small sample size and am scratching my head why you keep bringing it up

He got a ton in the 3 test SL series, he did okay

Say England win this final test due to Paines poor decision at the toss does this drawn series suddenly make Smith's feats not as good the past month?

Don't judge a batsman by series victories is all I'm saying. Judge them by runs

This is what many posters are saying . Smith may even overtake Bradman in future . Who knows ? But at present he has not even scored 50 % of runs , Tendulkar has scored overseas
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

So don't do premature ejaculation and declare him the 2nd best after Bradman when he still has half of his career remaining .

 

[OverratedSanity]

This is what many posters are saying . Smith may even overtake Bradman in future . Who knows ? But at present he has not even scored 50 % of runs , Tendulkar has scored overseas
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

So don't do premature ejaculation and declare him the 2nd best after Bradman when he still has half of his career remaining .

Younis played 71 of his 118 matches away from home. That's a ridiculously high percentage to play overseas. WAFG he was.

 

[vcs]

UAE should count as home.

 

[stephen]

They didn't.

I actually keep forgetting this because Australia went home with the trophy. You're right. Australia lost in 92/93 and then never again against the Windies. But they did draw 1999. By their first 00s tour Ambrose had retired and they lost their teeth. That final five test tour was a woeful effort. Absolute shellacking.

 

[sunilz]

Sachin was getting hailed (justifiably) as the best since Bradman around '99, and I'm not sure if he'd even participated in an overseas Test win, much less a Test series. The two things don't have much to do with each other.

That is because India had rubbish bowling attack . If Tendulkar had current Indian pace attack , many would have questioned his legacy .

For e.g. Kohli's failure to win a WC despite having such a good bowling attack and Rohit sharma in team should always count against him . I will never rate him higher than Viv or Tendulkar in ODI.

 

[trundler]

Younis played 71 of his 118 matches away from home. That's a ridiculously high percentage to play overseas. WAFG he was.

Bold take: he was as good as Dravid.