The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[OverratedSanity]

Bold take: he was as good as Dravid.

Arguably better. Certainly same level. Most under-appreciated batsmen of the last 25 years or so.

 

[vcs]

Australia were crushing everybody in that period, but yeah. That was officially the start of the Mervyn Dillon/Corey Collymore/Pedro Collins Era.

 

[mr_mister]

This is what many posters are saying . Smith may even overtake Bradman in future . Who knows ? But at present he has not even scored 50 % of runs , Tendulkar has scored overseas
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

So don't do premature ejaculation and declare him the 2nd best after Bradman when he still has half of his career remaining .

What a frustrating person you are to argue with.

Runs and averages then. He averages over 40 against every country bar Bangladesh and there's a good chance hel bump that up if he ever gets a home test against them as I'm sure youll agree

Be honest, how likely do you think it is hel cross 10k test runs while still averaging above 60? I'd say more likely than not

Gun to my head he isn't the clear cut second best bat after Bradman right now, fine. If he retired tomorrow there'd be an argument thered be a solid argument but I get some people value aggregate records higher than others. I'm just making a prediction, I feel a fairly rational one, so theres no need for the premature ejaculation comment

 

[OverratedSanity]

UAE should count as home.

Im counting it as home. 71 out of 118 matches outside Pak/UAE.

 

[vcs]

Just forget everything and watch him bat. Kohli batted very well but needed his fair share of luck to average around 60 last year. This guy barely plays and misses and doesn't look like he'll get out unless he gets bored.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Arguably better. Certainly same level. Most under-appreciated batsmen of the last 25 years or so.

Decent call. Second only to Chanderpaul imo

 

[stephen]

This is what many posters are saying . Smith may even overtake Bradman in future . Who knows ? But at present he has not even scored 50 % of runs , Tendulkar has scored overseas
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

So don't do premature ejaculation and declare him the 2nd best after Bradman when he still has half of his career remaining .

What does that have to do with anything?

Not everything in this game is about statistical analyses.

I can confidently say I've seen a lot of cricket over the last three decades and Smith is the best of the lot. Better than peak Ponting/ Lara/ Tendulkar/ Kohli. I don't need him to do it for any longer to say that. His peak is already as long as Ponting's peak.

 

[vcs]

Im counting it as home. 71 out of 118 matches outside Pak/UAE.

Didn't know it was that many.

 

[trundler]

Yeah Dravid=YK=Chanders sits well with me. All 3 bonafide ATGs. All 3 played some pretty memorable knocks too. Younis probably the best player of spin, Dravid the best against pace and Chanders had an eery aura of imperviousness. WI, Pak and India sure could use a batsman like that now. Kick myself for not valuing YK enough when he was around everyday. His hundreds in the UAE were insane. Came in spin friendly conditions generally. Dravid's 10 tons outside Asia an insane stat too.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dravid was great against swing and seam, not necessarily pace and bounce.

Chanderpaul clearly a level below them imo

 

[kyear2]

What does that have to do with anything?

Not everything in this game is about statistical analyses.

I can confidently say I've seen a lot of cricket over the last three decades and Smith is the best of the lot. Better than peak Ponting/ Lara/ Tendulkar/ Kohli. I don't need him to do it for any longer to say that. His peak is already as long as Ponting's peak.

I've watched a fair bit as well and I can't rate him higher than Sachin, Viv, Lara and that's based just on what who I've seen. That still leaves Hutton, Sobers, Hammond.

I wouldn't go into the full detail I did a few pages back, but what's the rush.

And better than peak Lara, don't think that exists. But that's just my opinion.

 

[mr_mister]

Now because I'm feeling really sneaky and selective

Test 100s rate batting in the top 4: (Non openers)

Sachin 44 tons from 275 innings
Sangakkara 38 tons from 227
Ponting 34 tons from 224
Lara 33 tons from 216

Hammond 22 tons from 123
Kohli 21 tons from 100

Smith 21 tons from 77
Bradman 23 tons from 66

Headley 10 tons from 34
Pollock 7 tons from 37

 

[OverratedSanity]

Now because I'm feeling really sneaky and selective

Test 100s rate batting in the top 4:

Sachin 44 tons from 275 innings
Lara 33 tons from 216

Hammond 22 tons from 123
Kohli 21 tons from 100

Smith 21 tons from 77
Bradman 23 tons from 66

Tendulkar 21 tons from his first 71 tests. And thats despite debuting as a kid who hadnt hit puberty yet.

Not saying Smith cant keep up the runscoring rate he's in right now, but I'm just giving you some perspective here on how insane peaks get hidden within long careers sometimes. Dry spells do happen for every batsman not named Bradman. If Smith becomes the exception to it, it'' be a privilege to watch but I doubt itll be the case.

 

[Spark]

I've watched a fair bit as well and I can't rate him higher than Sachin, Viv, Lara and that's based just on what who I've seen. That still leaves Hutton, Sobers, Hammond.

I wouldn't go into the full detail I did a few pages back, but what's the rush.

And better than peak Lara, don't think that exists. But that's just my opinion.

That really depends on what you mean by "peak".

Also yeah Dravid always had a bit more of a problem in Aus if the pitch had a bit of zip in it. Kept getting bowled in his last series because his front foot didn't go anywhere

 

[mr_mister]

Tendulkar 21 tons from his first 71 tests. And thats despite debuting as a kid who hadnt hit puberty yet.

Not saying Smith cant keep up the runscoring rate he's in right now, but I'm just giving you some perspective here on how insane peaks get hidden within long careers sometimes.

Fair. Smith's 26 from 67 is considerably better and he had no chance of getting tons in his first few batting down at 8/9

But yeah debuting at 21 is different to 16 I'll grant you

 

[mr_mister]

Also, it's a little more intangible but coming back after a one year ban, when I think a lot of people thought he'd never be quite as good, and rapidly improving your average even more is to me a sign there's very little that can stop him right now

 

[OverratedSanity]

Fair. Smith's 26 from 67 is considerably better and he had no chance of getting tons in his first few batting down at 8/9

But yeah debuting at 21 is different to 16 I'll grant you

I also said tests not innings, so Smith is indeed considerably better

 

[mr_mister]

I also said tests not innings, so Smith is indeed considerably better

Oh, my last post were his tons to tests rate

 

[OverratedSanity]

That really depends on what you mean by "peak".

Also yeah Dravid always had a bit more of a problem in Aus if the pitch had a bit of zip in it. Kept getting bowled in his last series because his front foot didn't go anywhere

Going from dominating a high class swing bowling attack in England on much tougher decks to getting bowled 6 times in 8 innings to blokes like Hilfenhaus and Siddle was so odd. That Australia attack was thoroughly ordinary by their historical standards.

**** that tour was awful. I felt so optimistic after that day at the MCG when Dravid was playing well and Tendulkar was batting with a door. Then David Warner bowled a shite full toss and India's entire tour fell apart. Some clear black magic at play with that ball imo.

 

[Spark]

Going from dominating a high class swing bowling attack in England on much tougher decks to getting bowled 6 times in 8 innings to blokes like Hilfenhaus and Siddle was pretty odd. That Australia attack was thoroughly ordinary by their historical standards.

Yeah I feel that tour has never quite been explained beyond "this team is just beyond the hill". They were facing ATG standard bowling in England, fair enough, but... not so much here. I guess the Indian bowling just had zero threat of any description, at least in England you had Praveen Kumar.