The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[JBMAC]

Haha, that JBMAC is really old and really white comes across beautifully here

So who is your pick for best keeper: Tallon, Taylor or Oldfield? Or Taylor's mentor Keith Andrew?

Don Tallon was the sweetest stumper I have seen. Not old enough to have see Oldfield but if you go by his contemporaries he was one of the top.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by the random bolding of part sentences.
Alan Knott would be my answer to both. You might be old enough to have seen more of the great keepers than I have, but the fact that you rate Engineer above Knott renders your opinion of other keepers very questionable.

I wonder if you are fortunate to have seen Engineer?... Clean glovework, smart footwork, great anticipation.........AND if you recall correctly I have always said TALLON was the best and I could not separate Grout, Maclean and Engineer

 

[fredfertang]

I saw plenty of Engineer in the 70s and he was the most brilliant 'keeper I've ever seen, but I'd rank him below Knott simply because he did make mistakes (probably fair to say because he was being a show pony), whereas Knotty all but never did

 

[cnerd123]

So, made a team with 1 player from each test nation, plus an associate player.

Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman*
Andy Flower+
Garry Sobers
Shakib al Hasan
Imran Khan
Ryan ten Doeschate
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Muttiah Muralitharan

Sorry to interrupt the keeper discussion, but picking noted batting-allrounder ten Doeschate and then batting him below Shakib and Imran is a bit weird.

 

[cnerd123]

Also if the keeper is keeping to an ATG XI attack then it's highly unlikely he'll be standing up to the quicks. I can see how that would be a less of a factor than batting ability.

 

[watson]

Also if the keeper is keeping to an ATG XI attack then it's highly unlikely he'll be standing up to the quicks. I can see how that would be a less of a factor than batting ability.

Unless SF Barnes or Alec Bedser is in the team.

Bill O'Reilly isn't classed as a quick, but he was quick. Only Gold Tier keepers could do his bowling justice.

Then there's Chandrasekhar......

 

[weldone]

Unless SF Barnes or Alec Bedser is in the team.

Bill O'Reilly isn't classed as a quick, but he was quick. Only Gold Tier keepers could do his bowling justice.

Then there's Chandrasekhar......

Kumble too

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also if the keeper is keeping to an ATG XI attack then it's highly unlikely he'll be standing up to the quicks. I can see how that would be a less of a factor than batting ability.

Unless SF Barnes or Alec Bedser is in the team.

Bill O'Reilly isn't classed as a quick, but he was quick. Only Gold Tier keepers could do his bowling justice.

Then there's Chandrasekhar......

Yeah, helps when keeping to quickish spinners.

I remember a Healy stumping where Bevan bowled a quick full toss outisde leg stump and Mark Butcher overbalanced trying to glance it to fine leg. Healy had the stumps off in a flash. Was amazing.

Can't seem to find it on youtube though.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I wonder if you are fortunate to have seen Engineer?... Clean glovework, smart footwork, great anticipation.........AND if you recall correctly I have always said TALLON was the best and I could not separate Grout, Maclean and Engineer

I've seen a lot of Engineer. Of those you rate so highly he's the only one I've seen much of, which is why he's the one I quoted as a benchmark to judge your rating of keepers compared to mine. Alan Knott himself always considered Wasim Bari to be the best of that generation, though I think he was pretty much on his own with that.

 

[watson]

Valentine looks good. Ramadhin, well....

 

[watson]

Graeme Pollock smashes Rodney Hogg and Carl Rackemann all over the park during the first bit of the video. There are some great hook shots at the 43rd to 44th minute.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Awesome

 

[bagapath]

under 30 tests AT XI

barry richards
william gilbert grace *
george headley
graeme pollock
kumar ranjitsinhji
george aubrey faulkner
denis lindsay +
p.pollock
tiger o'reilley
sidney barnes
shane bond

 

[Lillian Thomson]

1. Hobbs
2. Hutton
3. Bradman
4. Hammond
5. Compton
6. Gilchrist
7. Botham
8. Snow
9. Trueman
10.Warne
11.Underwood

 

[The Battlers Prince]

1. Hobbs
2. Hutton
3. Bradman
4. Hammond
5. Compton
6. Gilchrist
7. Botham
8. Snow
9. Trueman
10.Warne
11.Underwood

Why bat Botham and Gilchrist in those positions?

 

[Coronis]

Keep in mind, at the time of that video, Pollock would've been 41. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Zinzan]

under 30 tests AT XI

barry richards
william gilbert grace *
george headley
graeme pollock
kumar ranjitsinhji
george aubrey faulkner
denis lindsay +
p.pollock
tiger o'reilley
sidney barnes
shane bond

Good side, although an argument could be made for S Clark, R Harris, B Reid and/or Philander > Bond in test matches, even if I'm happy to see a fellow Kiwi there. Also, good argument for Ponsford to force his way somewhere into that top 6.

 

[OverratedSanity]

under 30 tests AT XI

barry richards
william gilbert grace *
george headley
graeme pollock
kumar ranjitsinhji
george aubrey faulkner
denis lindsay +
p.pollock
tiger o'reilley
sidney barnes
shane bond

Good side, although an argument could be made for S Clark, R Harris, B Reid and/or Philander > Bond in test matches, even if I'm happy to see a fellow Kiwi there. Also, good argument for Ponsford to force his way somewhere into that top 6.

Mike Procter, ****s

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Vinod Kambli should be in the side for the first two days.

 

[Zinzan]

All-time NZ/SA combined ODI side;

Off the top of my head...

Hashim Amla
Glenn Turner
Kane Williamson
Jacques Kallis 7
AB de Villiers * +
Chris Cairns 4
Shaun Pollock 2
Lance Klusener 6
Daniel Vettori 5
Richard Hadlee 1
Allan Donald 3

12th man (unluckiest to miss out) Shane Bond
Strategic fielding 12th man: Jonty Rhodes

Tons of bowling options, yet still have the batting depth of Klusener, Vettori & Hadlee at numbers 8,9 & 10.

Perhaps I'm flattering NZ by including as many as 5 in the XI considering how much better SA have been in ODIs, but feel they all warrant selection in their own right.

Other notable contenders I may include of another day include; Shane Bond (pains me to leave him out, but ahead of Donald, Hadlee?..oh well) , H. Gibbs, G Kirsten, McCullum (if keeping & opening), Dale Steyn (think he's behind Bond, Hadlee, Pollock & Donald in the short form).

 

[Zinzan]

How would that above side go against an all-time Eng/WI combined ODI side?