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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Bolo. said:
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

Vs

Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards/Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^
Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Imran
Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Which team bats better? Which team bowls better?
Click to expand...
Top team bats better. On bowling, the question is how much relative value Miller brings when you already have Sobers there to rotate the strike. How much will he really be bowling? Diminishing returns it seems like.

Also lets stop calling him John. John Hobbs was his father, he was always Jack :)
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
I’m sure theres a way on statsguru or something but it’d be interesting to see correlations of AR’s batting output relative to their bowling workloads, e.g average when bowling x amount of overs or less/more.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Coronis said:
Yeah Tendulkar and Lara excluded for that reason. Sanga should probably be there he and Chanders are the types of players who are a bit annoying in these decadal ones because they have a better record (and still solid sample size) in a different decade than when they played most of their matches.
Click to expand...
KC Sangakkara (SL)2000-20098814710754928755.101359455.532132497722

KC Sangakkara (SL)2010-201546867485131961.40928852.221720751429

I would like to include Sangakkara in 2010s Team as he had 17 centuries in 2010s which is a big number.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
1970s Team of the Decade
1) Sunil Gavaskar
2) Geoffrey Boycott
3) Alvin Kallicharran
4) Greg Chappell
5) Clive Lloyd (c)
6) Tony Greig
7) Alan Knott+
8) Ian Botham
9) Andy Roberts
10) Dennis Lillee
11) Derek Underwood

1980s Team of the Decade
1) Gordon Greenidge
2) Desmond Haynes
3) Viv Richards
4) Javed Miandad
5) Allan Border
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Jeff Dujon+
8) Richard Hadlee
9) Malcolm Marshall
10) Iqbal Qasim
11) Joel Garner

1990s Team of the Decade
1) Graham Gooch
2) Saeed Anwar
3) Brian Lara
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Steve Waugh (c)
6) Aravinda De Silva
7) Ian Healy+
8) Wasim Akram
9) Shane Warne
10) Curtly Ambrose
11) Allan Donald

2000s Team of the Decade
1) Graeme Smith
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Ricky Ponting (c)
4) Rahul Dravid
5) Jacques Kallis
6) Michael Hussey
7) Adam Gilchrist+
8) Shaun Pollock
9) Shoaib Akthar
10) Muttiah Muralitharan
11) Glenn McGrath
 
Last edited:
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Bolo. said:
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

Vs

Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards/Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^
Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Imran
Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Which team bats better? Which team bowls better?
Click to expand...
The top bats and bowls better. There's better bowlers and an extra front line batsman.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
trundler said:
Barry Richards 👎
Click to expand...
Not a popular choice, but between everything I've watched, read and people I've listened to, think he's the best and most unique option.

Even if briefly he proved he could handle himself in WSC, there was nothing more testing than that. He showed longevity over his career, and batted next to a legit opening great and it can be said he out performed him.
He combined aggression and technique unlike anyone else, bringing that to the top of the innings and additional utility to the team.

There's at least 3 posters here who have seen him and all say he's among, if not the very best they've seen. Favorably comparing him to Viv, Sachin and Garry., those are all the other batsmen from an arg team, especially that any of us have seen besides one poster and Bradman.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and not only do I think he belongs, I think that if we did have a time machine and we're able to chose any batsman for the role, based on pure ability think he's the first choice for opener.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Coronis said:
Top team bats better. On bowling, the question is how much relative value Miller brings when you already have Sobers there to rotate the strike. How much will he really be bowling? Diminishing returns it seems like.

Also lets stop calling him John. John Hobbs was his father, he was always Jack :)
Click to expand...
Agree with both points.

And to further add, Miller was at his best with the new ball which he probably wouldn't get a sniff at anyways and 6 bowlers really is over kill.

Where I believe I depart from most here is that I don't believe depth trump's quality.

And I use John the same reason I use IVA or Leonard. When you reference their titles I prefer use their real names.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Fuller Pilch said:
If this is Bogle's and your team of the 2010s

Cook, Warner, Sanga, Smith, Kohli, AB (wk), Shakib, Ashwin, Cummins, Steyn, Anderson what about the 2020s so far?

I'd go
Khawaja
Karunaratne (or Rohit)
Williamson
Root
Babar/Mitchell
Pant
Jadeja
Jamieson
Rabada
Lyon/Hazelwood
Bumrah
Click to expand...
2020s only after the end of the decade
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
Coronis said:
Top team bats better. On bowling, the question is how much relative value Miller brings when you already have Sobers there to rotate the strike. How much will he really be bowling? Diminishing returns it seems like.

Also lets stop calling him John. John Hobbs was his father, he was always Jack :)
Click to expand...
You reckon the top team bats better? An ATG bat fails most innings. Having all three ARs combined fail in an innings to a similar extent is going to be very rare. The difference in averages is like going from a top averaging ATG to Bradman.

There definitely are going to be diminishing reurns from playing Miller. I don't think I'd play him as a result. Debatable. But I'm just trying to construct a team that is stronger in both departments.

I think you are underselling his bowling or overselling the others. Between form, fitness, and conditions, he is frequently going to be a better option than at least one of the other 4 guys. Probably a better option than Warne alone half the time.
 
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