The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

The battle between England and Pakistan to make the semis would be the most intriguing. Pakistan's powerful attack vs England's batting would be amazing to witness, but the critical one would be Trueman and co vs Miandad, Younis and Inzi.

Of the top 3, while it may ultimately come down to the WI and Aus, South Africa can easily take out either. 7 legitimately great players and that's with Procter not making the lineup. Their opening attack and top 4 bats are as good as if not better than anyone's.
Might take England's batting aligned with Pakistan's bowling to defeat them.

Actually a composite team

Openers - England
1st drop - Australia
Middle order - W. I.
Spin battery - Australia
Pace attack - W. I.

Openers no discussion, similarly 1st drop, and middle order .
From my ratings Hobbs(4), Hutton(8), Bradman(1), Richards(5), Lara(7), Sobers(3)

Warne and Gilly and contenders / near locks for an AT team based partly because of their work together, so....

Pacers only close call, from our ongoing poll.
Marshall (1)/ Ambrose (7) / Garner (15)
Steyn (6) / Donald (13)/ Pollock (20)
Imran (8) / Akram (11) / Younis (17)
McGrath (2) / Lillee (12) / Cummins (23)
Barnes (9) / Trueman (14) / Anderson (25)

If we want to use Lindwall instead of Cummins that's 16 over 23, but did he ever come on first change, or suited to that role? I'll leave it up to the Australian's to decide.

But just raw ratings -
WI - 23
Aus - 37 / 30
Pak - 36
SA - 39
England - 48

Ok, thought it would have been between the Windies and South Africa but I was way off, but still Windies.

Since I'm on a roll, slip support.
Simpson - Chappell - Ponting
Smith - Kallis - Richards / Pollock /deVilliers
Lara - Sobers - Richards
Hammond - Botham - Barrington / Root

this went so very much longer than intended

Openers - England (sm SA)
First drop - Australia
Middle order - West Indies (sm Aus)
Spin / keeper - Australia (sm SL)
Pace Attack - West Indies (sm Aus / Pak / SA)

Cordon - Australia (sm SA / WI)

No offence btw and I don’t think you actually do but ranking teams by the individual number ratings like this is an incredibly stupid way of comparing them imo.

 

[kyear2]

No offence btw and I don’t think you actually do but ranking teams by the individual number ratings like this is an incredibly stupid way of comparing them imo.

I don't, and it's really a non-nuanced way of ranking them. Was still surprised by the result.

 

[Red]

When did you stop putting Miller in your Aussie side?

Yeh, it’s a hard one. He’s probably my favourite Australian cricketer of all time but he’s hard to fit in there. If I included OReilly with Warne I’d definitely have Miller.

 

[Red]

I'm guessing Gooch at 5 is a typo

Nah. He’s so good. Was as good as anyone against the WIs in their pomp and he played Warne as well as anyone too. He’s a deliberate choice.

 

[Red]

I agree with it too, @Red has just always put Miller there so I’m curious as to why not anymore. Especially since Smith doesn’t make the side.

On Smith, I’m sure I’ll get **** for this, but I just don’t rate him as highly as others. I rank him lower than Chappell, Border, Harvey and Ponting and possibly below SWaugh and McCabe.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s great, but I just don’t view him as highly as others seem to. Definitely not in my world all time XI and borderline in my Aus all time XI

 

[capt_Luffy]

On Smith, I’m sure I’ll get **** for this, but I just don’t rate him as highly as others. I rank him lower than Chappell, Border, Harvey and Ponting and possibly below SWaugh and McCabe.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s great, but I just don’t view him as highly as others seem to. Definitely not in my world all time XI and borderline in my Aus all time XI

I must say Smith below McCabe is an interesting choice....

 

[Red]

I must say Smith below McCabe is an interesting choice....

Would be, which is why I said “possibly”.

It’s not a big thing, he’s definitely in the debate for the best Aust middle order bats ever in my opinion. I just don’t rate him quite as highly as others.

 

[Coronis]

Would be, which is why I said “possibly”.

It’s not a big thing, he’s definitely in the debate for the best Aust middle order bats ever in my opinion. I just don’t rate him quite as highly as others.

I mean, its not the craziest thing I’ve read on here. But I do have to ask, why don’t you rate him so highly, any specific reasons? And since you did have Kohli and Root in their respective XI’s, how do you rate him relative to them?

 

[kyear2]

I have it in bands:

WI/Aus

Eng/RSA/India/Pakistan

SL/NZ

Aus / WI
SA
Eng / Pakistan
Ind
SL / NZ

Australia
Bobby Simpson
Matthew Hayden
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Pat Cummins
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

West Indies
Frank Worrell
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose

South Africa
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A. B deVilliers
Jock Cameron
Shaun Pollock
Hugh Tayfield
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald

Pakistan
Hanif Mohamed
Sased Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Rashid Latif
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Abdul Quadir
Waqar Younis

England
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Joe Root
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Allan Knott
Fred Trueman
Hedley Verity
Frank Tyson / Syd Barnes
Jimmy Anderson

As I said earlier, there clearly a top 3 and the two teams fighting for the 4th spot to get into the semis.

I'll take any of the top three teams to topple each other. Pakistan has that potential with their bowling as well, but honestly their batting isn't quite up to the others?

 

[Bolo.]

Aus / WI
SA
Eng / Pakistan
Ind
SL / NZ

Australia
Bobby Simpson
Matthew Hayden
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Pat Cummins
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

West Indies
Frank Worrell
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose

South Africa
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A. B deVilliers
Jock Cameron
Shaun Pollock
Hugh Tayfield
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald

Pakistan
Hanif Mohamed
Sased Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Rashid Latif
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Abdul Quadir
Waqar Younis

England
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Joe Root
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Allan Knott
Fred Trueman
Hedley Verity
Frank Tyson / Syd Barnes
Jimmy Anderson

As I said earlier, there clearly a top 3 and the two teams fighting for the 4th spot to get into the semis.

I'll take any of the top three teams to topple each other. Pakistan has that potential with their bowling as well, but honestly their batting isn't quite up to the others?

IDK about putting Barry into a team and leaving Procter out. Procter seems like more of a sure bet. Great bats can be surprise failures in certain conditions. Procter isn't going to be failing in all 3 disciplines very often.

 

[Coronis]

Aus / WI
SA
Eng / Pakistan
Ind
SL / NZ

Australia
Bobby Simpson
Matthew Hayden
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Pat Cummins
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

West Indies
Frank Worrell
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose

South Africa
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A. B deVilliers
Jock Cameron
Shaun Pollock
Hugh Tayfield
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald

Pakistan
Hanif Mohamed
Sased Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Rashid Latif
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Abdul Quadir
Waqar Younis

England
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Joe Root
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Allan Knott
Fred Trueman
Hedley Verity
Frank Tyson / Syd Barnes
Jimmy Anderson

As I said earlier, there clearly a top 3 and the two teams fighting for the 4th spot to get into the semis.

I'll take any of the top three teams to topple each other. Pakistan has that potential with their bowling as well, but honestly their batting isn't quite up to the others?

I can’t fathom why you’d pick Qadir over Saqlain

 

[capt_Luffy]

I can’t fathom why you’d pick Qadir over Saqlain

Better peer rating......

 

[Northerner]

Aus / WI
SA
Eng / Pakistan
Ind
SL / NZ

Australia
Bobby Simpson
Matthew Hayden
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Pat Cummins
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

West Indies
Frank Worrell
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose

South Africa
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A. B deVilliers
Jock Cameron
Shaun Pollock
Hugh Tayfield
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald

Pakistan
Hanif Mohamed
Sased Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Rashid Latif
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Abdul Quadir
Waqar Younis

England
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Joe Root
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Allan Knott
Fred Trueman
Hedley Verity
Frank Tyson / Syd Barnes
Jimmy Anderson

As I said earlier, there clearly a top 3 and the two teams fighting for the 4th spot to get into the semis.

I'll take any of the top three teams to topple each other. Pakistan has that potential with their bowling as well, but honestly their batting isn't quite up to the others?

For South Africa i would have Peter Pollock pr Mike Procter instead of Shaun.

New Zealand
Glen Turner
John Wright
Kane Williamson
Martin Crowe
Stephen Fleming
John Reid
Brenan McCullum
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Trent Boult.
12th man Chris Cairns,

 

[kyear2]

IDK about putting Barry into a team and leaving Procter out. Procter seems like more of a sure bet. Great bats can be surprise failures in certain conditions. Procter isn't going to be failing in all 3 disciplines very often.

My question is who do you drop. Pollock is more proven and is a direct competitor.

It was the hardest omission.

 

[kyear2]

I can’t fathom why you’d pick Qadir over Saqlain

Not a hill I would die on.

 

[Coronis]

Not a hill I would die on.

You could pick him at home sure but bloke averages 47 away…

 

[trundler]

I think Amla should be in there at 3 so Kallis bats 4. You want your best player to be at his best. Plus Amla was as good as De Villiers while they played together imo. The cowardly move there is to give the gloves to De Villiers and go Amla-Kallis-Pollock-Nourse-De Villiers but Waite absolutely deserves a place in there.

 

[howitzer]

I think Amla should be in there at 3 so Kallis bats 4. You want your best player to be at his best. Plus Amla was as good as De Villiers while they played together imo. The cowardly move there is to give the gloves to De Villiers and go Amla-Kallis-Pollock-Nourse-De Villiers but Waite absolutely deserves a place in there.

I tend to have Faulkner at 3. Both Amla and de Villiers missing out.

 

[Bolo.]

My question is who do you drop. Pollock is more proven and is a direct competitor.

It was the hardest omission.

Bruce Mitchell is more proven than Barry, and a direct competitor.

If you buy into the idea of picking unproven players in Barry on potential quality, then Procter is ahead of Pollock on batting and as a quick. And you get spin as a big freebie.

 

[kyear2]

I think Amla should be in there at 3 so Kallis bats 4. You want your best player to be at his best. Plus Amla was as good as De Villiers while they played together imo. The cowardly move there is to give the gloves to De Villiers and go Amla-Kallis-Pollock-Nourse-De Villiers but Waite absolutely deserves a place in there.

Only issue there is that Pollock also preferred 4 I believe. But your point is a good one