The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

Only issue there is that Pollock also preferred 4 I believe. But your point is a good one

Kallis is the best SA bat tho, so he gets priority.

 

[kyear2]

Bruce Mitchell is more proven than Barry, and a direct competitor.

If you buy into the idea of picking unproven players in Barry on potential quality, then Procter is ahead of Pollock on batting and as a quick. And you get spin as a big freebie.

Pollock also seems more suited to bowl with the old ball, and how often did he bowl off spin, thought it was only near the end of his career.

I'm not sold either way tbh.

 

[trundler]

I also don't think picking Cameron makes sense when De Kock exists. Cameron's claim to fame is hitting Verity for a few 4s and generally batting aggressively but he still barely averaged 30 and had no tons. De Kock gives you that aggression and he's a lot more proven. The keeper spot is down to him or Waite unless you go for the De Villiers copout.

 

[kyear2]

I also don't think picking Cameron makes sense when De Kock exists. Cameron's claim to fame is hitting Verity for a few 4s and generally batting aggressively but he still barely averaged 30 and had no tons. De Kock gives you that aggression and he's a lot more proven. The keeper spot is down to him or Waite unless you go for the De Villiers copout.

Everything I've read about his keeping was that it was of the highest order , but Waite was also a good option. Again, not a hill to die on.

 

[kyear2]

But does anyone else agree that SA is probably the team best suited and most likely to upset the top 2?

 

[Coronis]

But dies anyone else agree that SA is probably the team best suited and most likely to upset the top 2?

Makes sense the third best team would be most likely to do so.

 

[trundler]

Everything I've read about his keeping was that it was of the highest order , but Waite was also a good option. Again, not a hill to die on.

I've read Waite's superior keeping as a reason to downplay Tayfield's superior wicket taking output in comparison to Laker so he must've been darn good behind the stumps too. Think he's a superior enough batsman for any marginal inferiority in keeping to not matter. De Kock was a very good keeper too and pretty much the perfect #7 in my eyes.

 

[Bolo.]

Pollock also seems more suited to bowl with the new ball, and how often did he bowl off spin, thought it was only near the end of his career.

I'm not sold either way tbh.

New ball is pretty well covered with Steyn, Donald, and either of them.

He didn't bowl that much spin until late career. But he started as a spinner when he was breaking into the game. And I think he was mostly capable of switching it up if needed. His innings best 9 fer included 8 from spin in 72/73, which would have still been reasonably early in his international career (had he had one to speak of).

 

[Coronis]

He was always capable of bowling quality spin (though generally his pace bowling worked perfectly well at home and in England). He was forced to bowl it almost exclusively for one season iirc due to injury which was later in his career.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He was always capable of bowling quality spin (though generally his pace bowling worked perfectly well at home and in England). He was forced to bowl it almost exclusively for one season iirc due to injury which was later in his career.

How good was Procter's spin bowling? I have mostly read about his pace.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

For South Africa i would have Peter Pollock pr Mike Procter instead of Shaun.

New Zealand
Glen Turner
John Wright
Kane Williamson
Martin Crowe
Stephen Fleming
John Reid
Brenan McCullum
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Trent Boult.
12th man Chris Cairns,

Did you forget Ross Taylor?

 

[Bolo.]

How good was Procter's spin bowling? I have mostly read about his pace.

IDK, and suspect I would if he was seriously good.

He did average 16 in WSC though, bowling very little pace. Not a meaningful sample size obviously, but considering how badly just about every other offie has failed in Aus for decades, still impressive.

Good enough to add a decent bit of value if playing on a burner, I suspect.

 

[kyear2]

New ball is pretty well covered with Steyn, Donald, and either of them.

He didn't bowl that much spin until late career. But he started as a spinner when he was breaking into the game. And I think he was mostly capable of switching it up if needed. His innings best 9 fer included 8 from spin in 72/73, which would have still been reasonably early in his international career (had he had one to speak of).

Sorry, that should have been old ball. Will edit

 

[kyear2]

Makes sense the third best team would be most likely to do so.

Could they challenge Australia in your opinion?

 

[Bolo.]

Sorry, that should have been old ball. Will edit

Pollock relied on the seam for movement, which tends to go pretty fast. By ATG standards, he was basically a holding bowler with the old ball.

 

[Red]

I mean, its not the craziest thing I’ve read on here. But I do have to ask, why don’t you rate him so highly, any specific reasons? And since you did have Kohli and Root in their respective XI’s, how do you rate him relative to them?

I find it hard to define. I’ve seen the entire career of both Ponting and Waugh, and a fair % of Border’s. There might be a bit of nostalgia going on but I’d just bank on Waugh or Border to fight harder in a real scrap. And Ponting was the best counter puncher we’ve had. He’d be in the team if Bradman didn’t exist.

I also feel like Smith hasn’t faced attacks as good as the others did, but I’m prepared to be corrected.

I’d rate Root roughly on par with Smith based on what I’ve seen, and Kohli slightly below them (in tests obv)

 

[Northerner]

Did you forget Ross Taylor?

no 13th man. Reid keeps him out because of his bowling option.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

no 13th man. Reid keeps him out because of his bowling option.

But Taylor was much better than Stephen Fleming as were 5 or 6 other batsmen.

 

[Prince EWS]

But Taylor was much better than Stephen Fleming as were 5 or 6 other batsmen.

But Fleming could bowl a hoop down a hill.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He made Taylor look like Murali.