The Ashes are coming home!

[aussie]

I'm hoping Butcher doesn't play for England again.

my its like i am the only one that here that has any sympothy for Buthcer. Well another option is Ed Joyce but if the selectors go for him it another inexperienced batsman in the middle order.

I would rather Butcher come back and fail and blokes like Pietersen & Joyce come into the middle order, rather than Butcher be forgotten

 

[marc71178]

dont lets go forgetting Butcher now. Simply because if Thorpe does retire at the end of the Ashes England will have 2 talented but INEXPERIENCED batsmen in the middle order for a good while after thorpe goes, so a man like butcher who i feel still has something to offer england should come back in at # 3

If Bell's done a full Ashes series he's no longer classed as inexperienced.

 

[aussie]

If Bell's done a full Ashes series he's no longer classed as inexperienced.

well thats just one series, he still woudn't have yet been exposed to all conditions around the world

 

[Barney Rubble]

Whoever it was that posted earlier with regard to me saying Bell should be kept in regardless of form (can't find where it was), I said that because 1) you can't tell whether he is in form or not until after the first three Tests, really, and 2) if you bring in anyone after the first three Tests it is likely to take them a couple of games to bed in. Bringing in someone in that situation, simply because you are 2-0 down or whatever, would give them the impression they were there to change the results the team had been getting, essentially. This, I think, would put too much pressure on a Test debutant - even a confident man like Pietersen.

Anyway, Bell's going to rack up an unbeaten 250 at Lord's, so let's not worry about dropping him, eh?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

my its like i am the only one that here that has any sympothy for Buthcer. Well another option is Ed Joyce but if the selectors go for him it another inexperienced batsman in the middle order.

I would rather Butcher come back and fail and blokes like Pietersen & Joyce come into the middle order, rather than Butcher be forgotten

I have sympathy for Butch, a wonderful punisher on his day and what an incredible knock at Headers', but he had his chance old chap, just as Ramps',Hick,Crawley et al did; Butch just got out in the 60's and 70's too often and he can only blame himself for that. Time to move on, KP is next in line, dorme bien Butch you didn't do too badly.

 

[badgerhair]

my its like i am the only one that here that has any sympothy for Buthcer. Well another option is Ed Joyce but if the selectors go for him it another inexperienced batsman in the middle order.

I would rather Butcher come back and fail and blokes like Pietersen & Joyce come into the middle order, rather than Butcher be forgotten

I've great sympathy for Butch. His Test career has effectively ended not through any fault of his own but by getting injured and seeing the replacements doing too well. The train is going to leave without him.

What is encouragng is that we can leave someone with his recent record out and not notice that he's gone. Five years ago, missing someone like him (although *he* wasn't like him five years ago) would have been a blow, but standards are higher now.

At least he (and I) will always have Headingley 2001 to remember. For one day, he was the best batsman in the world. Lots of players never manage that.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Scallywag]

Giles: If he has a good series, it'll generally mean the matches have been pushed into late 4th day/5th day when the Aussies have traditionally struggled to save/win matches. And when they're trying to be on the defensive, they're not at their best (they're used to winning, after all) and if the ball is turning, Giles could well be a key 5th day bowler. The Aussies are terrific front-runners but the longer a match drags on, the more even things become and as I said, Giles is a key bowler here.

Just checked the stats on this statement Top_cat.

In the last 46 matches that have produced a result on the 4th and 5th days.

4th day results
Australia lost 1
Australia won 19

5th day results
Australia lost 6
Australia won 12

So combined 4th and 5th day results Australia have won 31 and lost 7 which indicates to me that other teams struggle to beat Australia on the 4th and 5th days.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Just checked the stats on this statement Top_cat.

In the last 46 matches that have produced a result on the 4th and 5th days.

4th day results
Australia lost 1
Australia won 19

5th day results
Australia lost 6
Australia won 12

So combined 4th and 5th day results Australia have won 31 and lost 7 which indicates to me that other teams struggle to beat Australia on the 4th and 5th days.

So Australia lose roughly 20% of the time when the game goes into a 4th or 5th day. Not sure, but I'm guessing that this would be a greater amount than the percentage of games lost over the same time period.

Which of course is only natural - the better teams will not get flogged as often as the teams that are not up to the same standard. Therefore your going to have to take the match into a 4th or 5th day more often to beat Australia than what you will to beat other nations.

 

[Scallywag]

So Australia lose roughly 20% of the time when the game goes into a 4th or 5th day. Not sure, but I'm guessing that this would be a greater amount than the percentage of games lost over the same time period.

Which of course is only natural - the better teams will not get flogged as often as the better teams. Therefore your going to have to take the match into a 4th or 5th day more often to beat Australia than what you will to beat other nations.

In the same period Australia have only lost one other game which was the Mumbia game in two days. They did not lose a game in three days in that period.

 

[simmy]

Just to make my argument stronger... Somerset have just beating the supposed "best team in the world". Three games 2 losses!

HAHA.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Just to make my argument stronger... Somerset have just beating the supposed "best team in the world". Three games 2 losses!

HAHA.

So, if Australia aren't the "best team in the world", one would have to wonder who are.

 

[Chubb]

Zimbabwe, of course. 345? Pah! they'd have got 500!

 

[aussie]

Just to make my argument stronger... Somerset have just beating the supposed "best team in the world". Three games 2 losses!

HAHA.

still dont get carried away mate. The australians will be disappointed with their 2 defeats but the only way i will start paying attention to australia's defeats is if they dont play convincingly againts Bangladesh & go and loose to england on sunday

 

[simmy]

OK... they are the best team... obviously.

But surely not being able to get Somerset out for less than 346 or not even contain them must pose some serious questions!

 

[aussie]

OK... they are the best team... obviously.

But surely not being able to get Somerset out for less than 346 or not even contain them must pose some serious questions!

yes the australians will be a bit worried about their back up bowlers so far. Lee has been ok, McGrath has been the best on tour, the wrest haven't been to great.

 

[EnglishRose]

The true home of the Ashes is in Australia so yes the Ashes will be coming home again this year.........hahahahahahahaha

 

[Top_Cat]

But surely not being able to get Somerset out for less than 346 or not even contain them must pose some serious questions!

Does it REALLY need to be pointed out to you that the two guys who scored the bulk of the runs for Somerset aren't Somerset locals and are in fact established Test players, one of whom averages 55+ and the other is one of the bestter ODI players of all time?? On their day, NO-ONE would have been able to contain them. Somerset, as a team, may not be up to the level of the Aussies per se but the two players who did the most to win the game most certainly are. Just pointing out that 'Australia were beaten by a county' side is extremely misleading.

 

[Slow Love™]

I'm with Top_Cat - outside of Kasper's poor performance, this result doesn't bother me too much (and the Twenty20 one sure did) - a couple of our bats retired in good form, and in recent years we've drawn/lost a few early tour games here and there, and it hasn't appeared to impact the "real" series. As well as that, as others have mentioned, making a huge deal out of being beaten by a county side is a bit disingenous when the victory was essentially facilitated by two non-English internationals.

I strongly disagree with cricinfo's Andrew Miller's comments that the retirements were contemptuous or hubristic, and that Hayden and Ponting should have persevered to ensure that Australia got the highest total possible. These games exist so that the touring teams have an opportunity to play themselves into form, and I think you're kidding yourself if you assume otherwise.

 

[Top_Cat]

I'm with Top_Cat - outside of Kasper's poor performance, this result doesn't bother me too much (and the Twenty20 one sure did) - a couple of our bats retired in good form, and in recent years we've drawn/lost a few early tour games here and there, and it hasn't appeared to impact the "real" series.

Well this is it - other than missing out on the wins, the Aussies individually would have gotten what they wanted out of the matches.

I strongly disagree with cricinfo's Andrew Miller's comments that the retirements were contemptuous or hubristic, and that Hayden and Ponting should have persevered to ensure that Australia got the highest total possible. These games exist so that the touring teams have an opportunity to play themselves into form, and I think you're kidding yourself if you assume otherwise.

Yup. Hayden and Ponting both retired knowing that, yes, hundreds were in the offing but that benefits could be extended to the rest of the order by giving them a hit which were greater than persevering for a meaningless hundred against a bowling attack missing it's stars.

And as for the bowling, Kasper struggled but I'd say he's underdone. Aside from that, McGrath is bowling well, Warnie is bowling well for Hampshire, Gillespie looks as if he's having a rest but is generally consistent and Lee is showing positive signs. Again, this is what the Aussies would have wanted to see, the wins against this side coming second I'd wager.

 

[Adamc]

On the 2001 tour, Australia lost to Middlesex and Hampshire, and tied with Northants. They then won the Ashes 4-1. I don't think it wil have too much of an impact on the series, though it will be a wakeup call and I hope Ponting has a few stern words for his bowlers. Still, all signs point to this series being the closest in years.