Simon Jones or James Anderson?

[marc71178]

Because we all know how much a single game proves, don't we?
He's got to do it more than once.

Except he has done it more than once.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The last game was not the odd burst. It was 4 or 5 odd bursts all in a row.

Ok and when he does that in a few more games I may change my mind. That's a few more games in close proximity mind you.

 

[Richard]

Alternatively, observers could show an open mind and admit he bowled very well.

He bowled OK, better than he normally bowls.
He did not, however, run through South Africa.

 

[Richard]

As accounted for by...

"He will give you the odd burst, but is generally not quite up to scratch."

Thing is, of course, if the most recent is a good-'un it might be the start of a new pattern.
Until it is I'll assume it isn't, but we can't know.

 

[Richard]

And am I right in thinking that in just about all of those occasions he's not done too badly at all?

Certainly didn't bowl well either at West Indies at Lord's - 1 for 133 or something.
Bowled well against New Zealand at Lord's, yes - was unlucky not to get better figures.
7 overs doesn't really count because you can't say much on 7 overs - 1 for 33 isn't great, but it could have got better (or worse).
Some people said he bowled well on his Test-debut - I don't think getting Ratra and AA - the former of a rank Long-Hop - then Sehwag and Laxman off nothing balls that had the wrong line played to them (Sehwag outside and Laxman inside) - combined with bowling at least 10 deliveries that bounced twice before reaching Stewart - is bowling well, personally - some would beg to differ, clearly.
So that's 2 out of 4 - still rather inconclusive.

 

[Richard]

Except he has done it more than once.

Not consecutively.
As Liam points-out, if this game is followed by 3 ordinary ones he's done it once in a while - not good enough for a Test-bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

Jones didn't run through South Africa, he got four wickets all but one of which were tailenders. Anyway, given that he keeps getting picked, success is bound to come occasionally.

you dont stop do you? whatever it is you have against jones i'll never know, because from what i've seen of him, on his day hes a far better bowler than harmison, flintoff and hoggard. its amazing how you jump on his tail the moment he has one bad performance, i remember a similar situation after the game against NZ,(where again he was the difference maker with the ball between the 2 sides), you were on his back about his being picked at the start of the game and then didnt mumble a word against him till the end of the series. since then of course hes had 1 poor game, arguably because he was carrying an injury and everyone is calling for his head again.
mind you, you should know that someone who averages 32 odd in tests is not a tailender.

 

[tooextracool]

As we all know is that he's played a big part in winning a single game.

lets just say this, on the occasions hes looked to be injury free and bowling at his best hes looked extremely good, and given that that we've seen that in 2 out of the last 3 games, id say hes done a fairly good job. its glaringly obvious to anyone who watched him bowl that he has a hell of a lot of potential.

 

[tooextracool]

Test debut
First Test v Australia (only bowled 7 overs though)
Against West Indies and New Zealand at Lord's
The current game
I'm presuming you mean "when has he been truly fit when playing Test-cricket".

he was supposed to have had a bruised toe against the WI.

 

[tooextracool]

5/57 in Port Of Spain not count?

to be fair, i think he should consider himself to be flattered by those figures, because he didnt bowl anywhere near as well as they suggest. but then the figures in the game against NZ at lords where he bowled far better than the figures show would probably cancel out with that one.

 

[tooextracool]

are you trying to say no swing bowlers have been successful in ODI's pitching it up?

yes, unless the conditions are conducive for swing/seam theres no point in pitching it up, you'll get clobbered.

for one james anderson done it for the most part of his career and it's fair to say he done quite well

no he hasnt, he was lucky enough to come across a number of seamer friendly wickets early in his career that made his average look better than what it is. his ER suggests that hes been hammered anyways.

 

[tooextracool]

I meant in a row.
Given that his figures in the interim period are a fantastic 7 wickets at 63.71 I don't think these 2 isolated games prove what some seem to.

of course the fact that he bowled far better in the game against NZ than his figures suggest doesnt go to show anything does it? or the fact that he was carrying an injury in the other game? i really do wonder if you watched the game against NZ or the one against SA because if you still think that hes not good enough after that then you really musy be out of your mind.

 

[tooextracool]

Jones did not run though South Africa like Kirtley did at Trent Bridge.
He got 2 tailenders out and got given 1 wicket which wasn't a wicket. In short, his one worthwhile achievement was to dismiss Jacques Kallis.
Kirtley tore through the South African order, taking 4 genuine wickets of players who have proven their ability to bat at Test-level (plus Graeme Smith with a poor decision) and 1 tail-ender. Albeit with rather more help from inconsistent bounce than Jones enjoyed.
Sorry, Kirtley's achievement was still the better.

i really can see where this is going, if jones were to end up being successful at the intl level you wouldnt be able to get over the fact that someone who has failed at the domestic level has succeeded at the intl level. go on live in your dream world where domestic cricket is the be all and end all.

 

[tooextracool]

As accounted for by...

"He will give you the odd burst, but is generally not quite up to scratch."

accuracy isnt his strong points, but on the rare occasions that hes actually had the benefit of getting enough practice before a test, hes actually bowled with a lot more accuracy than before.

 

[tooextracool]

Not consecutively.
As Liam points-out, if this game is followed by 3 ordinary ones he's done it once in a while - not good enough for a Test-bowler.

except that he hasnt had 3 ordinary ones, he was certainly above ordinary at lords.

 

[bryce]

yes, unless the conditions are conducive for swing/seam theres no point in pitching it up, you'll get clobbered.

well obviously if a swing bowler isn't getting swing then he's in trouble isn't he, the point i was trying to make is that in conditions when the ball will swing you have to pitch it up otherwise it isn't going to swing and it can be very effective in ODI's

no he hasnt, he was lucky enough to come across a number of seamer friendly wickets early in his career that made his average look better than what it is. his ER suggests that hes been hammered anyways.

i beg to differ - i was watching highlights of WC2003 and he bowled brilliantly against pakistan and got an enormous amount of swing aswell as four wickets and his average suggests he has been a quite successful wicket-taker even if it has been climbing due to lack of form,it's not suprising he has a high ER - if a swing bowler gets it wrong then they are easily put away and we all know anderson isn't the most accurate bowler around

 

[Nate]

and i wonder how you have so many posts... 9 in a row
youve spoilt this thread for me 2EC

 

[sledger]

Jones didn't run through South Africa, he got four wickets all but one of which were tailenders. Anyway, given that he keeps getting picked, success is bound to come occasionally.

yes but we must emphasise the fact that the wicket he got that wasnt a tail ender was kallis and a potentially crucial one,

had kallis gone on to make 100+ who knows what could have happened, for all we know the result could have been changed completely

 

[Marcus]

Look at Jones....look at Anderson....its easy to see that over the past year performances that Anderson shouldnt fit or be in the current side.....Jones hass come back from his career threatening injusy and has bowled well for glamorgan last season and bowled the most aggressive spell in the last test......Jones complements both Harmisson and Hoggard...and anderson...as seen in Zimbarbwe is bowling toooo short and tooooo wide......Loughbrough would do the guy a favour...at the moment Its Jones for England...Anderson for England A

 

[Tom Halsey]

Ok and when he does that in a few more games I may change my mind. That's a few more games in close proximity mind you.

Yeah, I'm still not convinced, but he did bowl bloody well in that game.