Simon Jones or James Anderson?

[wpdavid]

Anderson ''lost it'' in this test but i feel he has been messed around by England. the poor guy has not yet even bowled 1000 first class overs so i reealllyyy feel sorry for him the way everyone is laying into him after that awfull perfomance. but i think it's best to let himm have a break and atleast get in a full season with lacanshire.

The way the CC games were timed didn't help. The problem last summer was he was often released ion the first day of a test, so he joined Lancs a day or 2 into their CC game. I think he was also injured for a while at the start of the season. I agree with you that he probably needs a season of bowling lots of overs for Lancs to get his game together.

Jones has done OK when he's played on this tour, although he hasn't done enough to cement his place. I do wonder about whether we should play a batsman at 6 and Fred at 7 as one of 4 bowlers. That would mean getting about 15 overs in a day out of Tresco / Bell / Vaughan / Butcher / Pietersen / Collingwood if we don't want to knacker the remaining 3 quicks, or else Giles bowling long spells if conditions suit, but our middle order scares me at present.

 

[twctopcat]

The way the CC games were timed didn't help. The problem last summer was he was often released ion the first day of a test, so he joined Lancs a day or 2 into their CC game. I think he was also injured for a while at the start of the season. I agree with you that he probably needs a season of bowling lots of overs for Lancs to get his game together.

Jones has done OK when he's played on this tour, although he hasn't done enough to cement his place. I do wonder about whether we should play a batsman at 6 and Fred at 7 as one of 4 bowlers. That would mean getting about 15 overs in a day out of Tresco / Bell / Vaughan / Butcher / Pietersen / Collingwood if we don't want to knacker the remaining 3 quicks, or else Giles bowling long spells if conditions suit, but our middle order scares me at present.

My feelings exactly. I would prefer bell or pietersen in there as an extra batsmen if jones/anderson was not up to the task at bowling.

 

[SpeedKing]

Hence you'd prefer Jones at this point in time?

That wud be true. although i think he's still got a big future and should return to the england setup once that ''head jerking'' issue has been sorted out

 

[SpeedKing]

My feelings exactly. I would prefer bell or pietersen in there as an extra batsmen if jones/anderson was not up to the task at bowling.

i think it's vital that england persist with anderson/jones option fot the fourth seamer. in jones' case, if he gets back his full pace, he could become a pretty dangerous bowler and he reverse swing so is usefull in the 60-80 overs period. james has the potential to becomes a hoggardesque swing bowler with more pace than hoggie

 

[BoyBrumby]

I do wonder about whether we should play a batsman at 6 and Fred at 7 as one of 4 bowlers. That would mean getting about 15 overs in a day out of Tresco / Bell / Vaughan / Butcher / Pietersen / Collingwood if we don't want to knacker the remaining 3 quicks, or else Giles bowling long spells if conditions suit, but our middle order scares me at present.

It's an interesting thought. Our middle order certainly lacks ballast at the moment: Fred at six is the proverbial curate's egg; Jones certainly isn't doing enough with the willow to overlook the drops & an average of over ten byes a test; Thorpey seems to be off the pace at the mo too (which I'm hoping is one of his sulks, rather than a terminal decline).

The other option I would guess is dropping Gilo (which is v harsh, true, but he's been underbowled this tour) & relying on Vaughan & Pietersen for a bit of spin. This would leave 5-8 looking like this:

5) Pietersen
6) Thorpe
7) Flintoff
8) Read

 

[Tom Halsey]

It's an interesting thought. Our middle order certainly lacks ballast at the moment: Fred at six is the proverbial curate's egg; Jones certainly isn't doing enough with the willow to overlook the drops & an average of over ten byes a test; Thorpey seems to be off the pace at the mo too (which I'm hoping is one of his sulks, rather than a terminal decline).

The other option I would guess is dropping Gilo (which is v harsh, true, but he's been underbowled this tour) & relying on Vaughan & Pietersen for a bit of spin. This would leave 5-8 looking like this:

5) Pietersen
6) Thorpe
7) Flintoff
8) Read

First paragraph I agree with.

Second point just wouldn't work IMO. Vaughan's bowling, while useful, is overrated, and I've not seen much of Pietersen and so won't comment,but his stats don't impress me too much.

 

[savill]

If Anderson could get some control and accuracy in his bowling, he is one for the future. However, I agree with tooextracool, Jones adds another dimension to the England bowling attack with his reverse swing and accuracy. In the last test, Anderson was very wayward, and too expensive, and really shouldn't be in the setup right now. I was more impressed with Tresco's three overs than Anderson throught the entire test!

 

[wpdavid]

It's an interesting thought. Our middle order certainly lacks ballast at the moment: Fred at six is the proverbial curate's egg; Jones certainly isn't doing enough with the willow to overlook the drops & an average of over ten byes a test; Thorpey seems to be off the pace at the mo too (which I'm hoping is one of his sulks, rather than a terminal decline).

The other option I would guess is dropping Gilo (which is v harsh, true, but he's been underbowled this tour) & relying on Vaughan & Pietersen for a bit of spin. This would leave 5-8 looking like this:

5) Pietersen
6) Thorpe
7) Flintoff
8) Read

Personally I'd go for Bell as the 6th batsman rather than Pietersen, unless Bell comes straight in at 3. After that, as you say, Fred & Read, but I'd usually keep Giles followed by H & H. Not that Harmy justifies selection after this tour, but I can't see us troubling Aus without him assuming he's back to something like his best. That would mean Hoggard, Harmison & Flintoff operating in short bursts with Giles bowling long stints and Tresco & Bell supporting.

If we weren't playing Aus, I might be happier with Flintoff at 6, but I just think they'll have Fred for breakfast more often than not. And there's no way getting away with the sort of middle order collapses we've seen this winter against that lot.

 

[social]

Harmison, if injured, needs to be rested.

If not, he needs to be bowled and bowled and bowled some more until he rediscovers his confidence.

Without him, England do not have a snow-ball's chance in hell of regaining the Ashes.

Anderson has far more potential than Jones but he needs to bowl in matches in order to improve. Therefore, you either pick him and suffer the consequences until he bets the required overs under his belt or drop him altogether and let him sort himself out with Lancashire.

England must also play a specialist spinner as this series has proven that their seamers are not as durable as Aus' and need resting to be effective. You cannot rely on Vaughan, etc. to do that job consistently.

 

[Black Thunder]

from an aussie point of view, i think Jones is a bigger threat at the moment, but in the long term i think Anderson will be better.

Jones is much more physically developed than Anderson.

 

[tooextracool]

Anderson ''lost it'' in this test but i feel he has been messed around by England. the poor guy has not yet even bowled 1000 first class overs so i reealllyyy feel sorry for him the way everyone is laying into him after that awfull perfomance. but i think it's best to let himm have a break and atleast get in a full season with lacanshire.

but the thing is, has anderson ever been accurate for an entire test match?

 

[tooextracool]

well with rain ruining the first day's play, it looks even more likely that bell will play.

 

[SpeedKing]

but the thing is, has anderson ever been accurate for an entire test match?

Anderson has that head thing and if it is sorted out, he has all the potential in the world to be a much more accurate bowler, but he was quite accurate (and smart) in the Oval test against W.I.

 

[SpeedKing]

I was more impressed with Tresco's three overs than Anderson throught the entire test!

he did make Kallis play and miss twice in a row in the first innings

 

[SpeedKing]

Anderson has far more potential than Jones but he needs to bowl in matches in order to improve

I think Anderson has more ability as a wicket-taker but jones is more accurate and can do a better job at the moment although at times, he comes across as a weeny bit toothless (Current Gough-like) while andrson is always lively and always comes up with a jaffa here and there

 

[tooextracool]

i'll go to the other extreme, i think jones has more potential than anderson does. personally anderson doesnt have the pace or the accuracy to trouble any test class player, unless he plays in seamer friendly conditions.

 

[wpdavid]

well with rain ruining the first day's play, it looks even more likely that bell will play.

Interesting thought - I hadn't even considered it for this series. Mind you, if he did leapfrog Collingwod at this point, it would make the original selection look pretty silly.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Interesting thought - I hadn't even considered it for this series. Mind you, if he did leapfrog Collingwod at this point, it would make the original selection look pretty silly.

I don't think Bell is in the 13 for the fifth. If cricinfo is to be believed it's the team for the 4th minus Anderson & plus S Jones, Lewis & Collingwood.

 

[social]

i'll go to the other extreme, i think jones has more potential than anderson does. personally anderson doesnt have the pace or the accuracy to trouble any test class player, unless he plays in seamer friendly conditions.

Anderson averaged 85 mph and bowled outswing in the last test - that is enough to trouble anyone.

To be totally fair to Jones, I have only really seen him bowl on this tour. However, according to the commentators (we get Gower, Botham, Lloyd, etc. on our coverage) he is totally useless in the first innings but quite useful when the ball starts to reverse at about the 60 over mark of the second innings. Whooppeee!

To me, both have lots of work to do on their actions.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Anderson averaged 85 mph and bowled outswing in the last test - that is enough to trouble anyone.

To be totally fair to Jones, I have only really seen him bowl on this tour. However, according to the commentators (we get Gower, Botham, Lloyd, etc. on our coverage) he is totally useless in the first innings but quite useful when the ball starts to reverse at about the 60 over mark of the second innings. Whooppeee!

To me, both have lots of work to do on their actions.

Until he snapped his anterior cruciate Jones was regularly over 90mph (145kmh). If he can get that back he definitely has the more potential of the two. No guarantee he will tho of course.

Anderson has gone backwards, IMHO. Probably because he hasn't bowled enough. He has the more obvious flaws of the two: falls away in his delivery stride & bowls with his head down. When he gets it right he can swing it, but isn't ready for tests at the mo. He needs to go back to Lancs & bowl some overs!