Should Haddin Be Dropped

[morgieb]

....this thread was made well before that happened.

I thought before that that he shouldn't be dropped. This just proves it.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Obvious reply would be flllllllaaaaaattttt pitch.

Not flat enough for anyone else playing to outscore him apparently...

 

[Athlai]

Not flat enough for anyone else playing to outscore him apparently...

Deffo played the best out of anyone.

But jeez how many byes does this guy let go?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Deffo played the best out of anyone.

But jeez how many byes does this guy let go?

Actually I was thinking about that last night...not so much the byes but he seems to move late to some catches. Mind you, at 140 clicks I'd probably move a bit late too At that level though it's a little strange to see. I was wondering whether Healy or someone might step in to help him out a bit...although I'm not sure whether it's a footwork thing or not and I've played with blokes who drop it when it's going to hit them in the chest (on a hat-trick mind you...), so I'm no authority

 

[_Ed_]

Not flat enough for anyone else playing to outscore him apparently...

Excellent point.

Same goes for Redmond in our first innings. Although of course he only scored half as many.

 

[Stapel]

Well,

We cannot expect a new Gilchrist to emerge every decade, right? I'm confident Haddin can be a new Boucher though. Fair enough, I guess.

 

[_Ed_]

Maybe a fair comparison in terms of batting ability, but one of the great things about Boucher has been his longevity - something Haddin is too old to have the opportunity to replicate.

 

[NZTailender]

lol but he onli scrd dat hundrad on a rode ronchi wudv scored 300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get him in da side he quick nt brng like haddin (mur lyk HADDNT AMIRITE?)

 

[gwo]

lol but he onli scrd dat hundrad on a rode ronchi wudv scored 300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get him in da side he quick nt brng like haddin (mur lyk HADDNT AMIRITE?)

quality.

 

[Precambrian]

lol but he onli scrd dat hundrad on a rode ronchi wudv scored 300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get him in da side he quick nt brng like haddin (mur lyk HADDNT AMIRITE?)

Gold post.

 

[Burgey]

Actually I was thinking about that last night...not so much the byes but he seems to move late to some catches. Mind you, at 140 clicks I'd probably move a bit late too At that level though it's a little strange to see. I was wondering whether Healy or someone might step in to help him out a bit...although I'm not sure whether it's a footwork thing or not and I've played with blokes who drop it when it's going to hit them in the chest (on a hat-trick mind you...), so I'm no authority

Standing too close to teh quicks IMHO.

If you watch the highlights, so many balls in both the most recent tests seemed to be hitting the gloves more towards the wrist portion than the palms of the hands. It might be a false perception on my part, but that's how it looked, and the way he moved so late to that catch off Lee on the last morning which he dropped, it also seemed he was too close to react.

Times the ball to death though.

 

[Top_Cat]

Standing too close to teh quicks IMHO.

If you watch the highlights, so many balls in both the most recent tests seemed to be hitting the gloves more towards the wrist portion than the palms of the hands. It might be a false perception on my part, but that's how it looked, and the way he moved so late to that catch off Lee on the last morning which he dropped, it also seemed he was too close to react.

Times the ball to death though.

Really don't understand why. Lee's his NSW team-mate, would have kept to him many times. Personally, physically, he's just not as quick as he should be. Not sure if it's age-related but it's why I advocated that the Aussie selectors look younger for their 'keeper post-Gilly. Mind you, the absolute paucity of decent 'keepers other than Haddin put paid to that idea....

 

[Richard]

Chris Hartley's perfectly good purely as a wicketkeeper isn't he?

Presume Adam Crosthwaite can't be that bad either.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

He obviously meant keeper-batsmen.

God forbid letting someone get by on a poor wording though.

 

[Matt79]

Standing too close to teh quicks IMHO.

If you watch the highlights, so many balls in both the most recent tests seemed to be hitting the gloves more towards the wrist portion than the palms of the hands. It might be a false perception on my part, but that's how it looked, and the way he moved so late to that catch off Lee on the last morning which he dropped, it also seemed he was too close to react.

Times the ball to death though.

Maybe having trouble adjusting after India where the ball wasn't travelling so well off the pitch? Strange if that's the case given how much cricket he's played around Australia however...

 

[pup11]

Chris Hartley's perfectly good purely as a wicketkeeper isn't he?

Presume Adam Crosthwaite can't be that bad either.

Lets be honest are there any pure wicket-keepers left around in world cricket, as basically every test team want their wicket-keeper to do a Gilly with the bat at no.7 even if that means them having to pick a guy with poor glove-work, so i think gone are the days when a wicket-keeper could hope to break into the side on the basis on good glove-work alone as at present the keepers are expected to bat as well as any other batsmen in the top-order.

I am happy for Haddin though, he has had to wait for such a long time get his baggy green, and he was also expected to fill the big boots of Adam Gilchrist who is arguably the best wicket-keeping batsmen the history of the game has ever seen, so the pressure was obviously on him big time, but his innings of 169 despite the nature of the wicket and the quality of the attack was a brilliant knock, i hope Haddin can take confidence from that knock and be his aggressive self whenever he goes out to bat.

 

[Richard]

He obviously meant keeper-batsmen.

God forbid letting someone get by on a poor wording though.

It's far from obvious. Of course he might well have meant 'keeper-batsman, but he might also not have done. If he meant that he can easily reply to my post stating such a thing.

 

[Richard]

Lets be honest are there any pure wicket-keepers left around in world cricket, as basically every test team want their wicket-keeper to do a Gilly with the bat at no.7 even if that means them having to pick a guy with poor glove-work, so i think gone are the days when a wicket-keeper could hope to break into the side on the basis on good glove-work alone as at present the keepers are expected to bat as well as any other batsmen in the top-order.

Not really. The number of good wicketkeepers who can also bat as well as top-order batsmen are precious few now, as they've been precious few at any time in Test history. Wicketkeepers need to be able to bat, but this realisation has been around for a long time now - the mid-1980s.

The last time wicketkeepers were picked with basically no regard for their skill as a batsman was probably Bob Taylor and Wasim Bari. However, the only genuine top-order batsmen who have also been able to keep wicket to acceptable standard are Stewart, Gilchrist and (for a time) Sangakkara. Andy Flower was a better batsman than all three but his wicketkeeping was often below-par. In time it's possible that Haddin and Dhoni may join this club.

The requirement for a wicketkeeper-batsman is that he do a good job in the lower-order: the likes of Kamran Akmal (though his wicketkeeping is inept), Prasanna Jayawardene, Jacobs, Boucher, Mongia, Murray, Kaluwitharana, Rashid Latif, Richardson, Moin Khan, Parore, Healy, Russell, More, Ian Smith, Salim Yousuf. I'd say the expectation is a bit higher now than it was 20 years ago (maybe 25 to 30, to use the simplistic career-average route) but there's still no way on Earth that people like Stewart and Gilchrist are going to be everyday features of every team. A genuine top-order batsman who can keep wicket to acceptable standard is and always will be a commodity precious few can expect very often. If you are expecting one of these in your team all the time, you're going to be very disappointed, very often.

 

[analyst]

Well I agree with the bulk of that post, you are forgetting the period when poor Alec Stewart was played as an opener just so that Jack Russell could be fitted into the team as a specialist keeper and we all know he was hopeless with the bat but an exceptional keeper.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well I agree with the bulk of that post, you are forgetting the period when poor Alec Stewart was played as an opener just so that Jack Russell could be fitted into the team as a specialist keeper and we all know he was hopeless with the bat but an exceptional keeper.

Averaged over 27 in tests, which is more than either Geraint or Ambrose, both of whom were initially selected at least in part for their supposed batting prowess.

Jack was definitely a specialist keeper, but his batting, whilst as ugly as sin, was a fair bit better than "hopeless". He suffered because of our lack of a genuine all-rounder and the need for Alec to fill that role.