Shane Warne vs Dale Steyn

[subshakerz]

How? If he were the most skilled barring Bradman, he'd be distinctly above the chasing pack but he isn't. He doesn't have any monster series runs wise. Even allowing for the lack of long series, every one of his contemporaries has one. He has zero atg series vs atg attack. He has great ones vs Steyn, McGrath, Murali etc but nothing on the level of Viv Australia 1980 or Lara Australia 1999 or Steve Waugh WI 1995 or Smith India 2017 etc.

He is slightly more skilled than the rest.

 

[Coronis]

Did I argue anything on averages?

You said he was a teen prodigy who did unthinkable things. Which isn’t really fair or true

 

[subshakerz]

You said he was a teen prodigy who did unthinkable things. Which isn’t really fair or true

Was referring to his hundreds in Eng, Aus and SA.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Not debating on your order of cricketers as it is respectable, but this is a lazy way of looking at things. Sachin's numbers have diminished to what they are, only because of his longevity. In other words, with lesser longevity, his averages are much greater. If he still managed to score more runs than any batsman ever, even after cutting off his early years and the late years, it is fair to rate him on those years alone, when he averaged close to 60.

Yeah but we're not cutting anything. Why? Because you can do that for any cricketer to make them look better. Just looking at Sobers for example. He played for a similar amount of years (not tests) and from his first century at 21 he averages something like 60 + and 30 odd with the ball. And nobody forced Sachin to play on for that long. Why did he btw?

Even with all that, a mountain of runs doesn't negate a player(players) turning a game/series with either bat or ball and doing it vs the best.

 

[Coronis]

Was referring to his hundreds in Eng, Aus and SA.

I mean he had the opportunity to do that because he was selected young and played in far more tests and locations than other young players due to that. Guys like Pollock, Mushtaq and Harvey all scored tons overseas as teens too.

 

[subshakerz]

And nobody forced Sachin to play on for that long. Why did he btw?

It's quite simple. The team benefits if you are playing quality cricket for more years. You would take someone batting at 9.4 level over one performing at 9.6 level if the former you can have five to six more years of performance.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean he had the opportunity to do that because he was selected young and played in far more tests and locations than other young players due to that. Guys like Pollock, Mushtaq and Harvey all scored tons overseas as teens too.

Again we have to go into a discussion on the quality of the tons but let's just leave it here.

 

[Johan]

Sachin/Viv being above Imran/Hadlee is something I'd give thought to.

 

[Coronis]

It's quite simple. The team benefits if you are playing quality cricket for more years. You would take someone batting at 9.4 level over one performing at 9.6 level if the former you can have five to six more years of performance.

I’m not sure Sachin’s last few years were what one might call quality cricket.

 

[Johan]

Sachin post 2002 New Zealand tour pretty much had a Viv post-1981 type career, as I've displayed many times.

 

[Coronis]

Sachin post 2002 New Zealand tour pretty much had a Viv post-1981 type career, as I've displayed many times.

Huh

 

[Johan]

Huh

Hm?

 

[Coronis]

Hm?

I don’t get how they are comparable.

 

[Johan]

I don’t get how they are comparable.

It was in your Viv vs Smith thread I think

 

[Coronis]

It was in your Viv vs Smith thread I think

Refresh me

 

[Johan]

Refresh me

bro I just posted their numbers and subtracted SL for Viv and Ban for Tendulkar.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

He is slightly more skilled than the rest.

Not based on results. Sachin does not have the best average, conversion rate, most runs in a series none of that. He's not the only one averaging 40+ home and away vs everyone. He has textbook technique I'll give him that.

 

[Bolo.]

You:
'All of you are just blindly reading Imran's 26 away average [and 59 SR]. He took a bunch of wickets.'

Also you:

Murali away averaged 27 with a 60SR. Warne is simply better away.

 

[Johan]

It's kinda hilarious we're having a full blown Warne vs Murali discussion and the mods haven't gotten a sniff of it.

 

[Johan]

Refresh me

got it.

Viv (late 1981-1991) [without SL]

77 matches, 4571 @ 43.12, 40.1 Run-per-inning

Sachin (late 2002-2013) [without Ban]

91 matches, 6408 runs @ 45.1, 41 run per inning

Smith (late 2019-2025)

48 matches, 3298 @ 45.1, 40.2 run per inning.