Shane Warne vs Dale Steyn

[Coronis]

got it.

Viv (late 1981-1991) [without SL]

77 matches, 4571 @ 43.12, 40.1 Run-per-inning

Sachin (late 2002-2013) [without Ban]

91 matches, 6408 runs @ 45.1, 41 run per inning

Smith (late 2019-2025)

48 matches, 3298 @ 45.1, 40.2 run per inning.

Oh I didn’t realise you were excluding parts of Sachin’s record but not the others.

 

[Johan]

Oh I didn’t realise you were excluding parts of Sachin’s record but not the others.

wdym, I excluded only the minnows like 80s SL and 00s Bangladesh, genuinely didn't find anything to remove for Smith as Australia doesn't play Ireland/Afganistan/Zimbabwe.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin post 2002 New Zealand tour pretty much had a Viv post-1981 type career, as I've displayed many times.

Yeah and except you might have forgot our exchange where you agreed Tendulkar reached higher highs than Viv did post peak.

 

[Johan]

Yeah and except you might have forgot our exchange where you agreed Tendulkar reached higher highs than Viv did post peak.

Hey I've insomnia, I forget **** but Yeah I'd rate Sachin's mini peak around 2009-10 over Viv's post peak work, though, their overall career post that point is relative with Sachin having a slight edge.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

It's quite simple. The team benefits if you are playing quality cricket for more years. You would take someone batting at 9.4 level over one performing at 9.6 level if the former you can have five to six more years of performance.

Sachin is just a great batsman Subz and they come a dime a dozen. He's nothing special beyond the length of his career. If you can point to the peerless Sachin performances then I'm all ears. The greatest Indian innings in recent times was VVS' vs Australia 2001. That's probably their greatest single series as well or one of. Kohli has some recent master pieces as well. But Sachin has nothing in that mold. Imran ie a bowling AR who's atg in his primary role is much rarer.

 

[subshakerz]

You:
'All of you are just blindly reading Imran's 26 away average [and 59 SR]. He took a bunch of wickets.'

Also you:

Dude YOU are the one asking me is compare on raw averages.

Like you cite his overall SR to prove him being more penetrative and when I point to the home/away split now you are 'haha look you're reading his away average blindly'. Don't be so silly.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin is just a great batsman Subz and they come a dime a dozen.

No.

 

[subshakerz]

Hey I've insomnia, I forget **** but Yeah I'd rate Sachin's mini peak around 2009-10 over Viv's post peak work, though, their overall career post that point is relative with Sachin having a slight edge.

Yeah except in terms of actual years of performing world class level, Sachin is easily ahead of Viv even if you include WSC. Which was the point of talking about longevity.

 

[Johan]

Yeah except in terms of actual years of performing world class level, Sachin is easily ahead of Viv even if you include WSC. Which was the point of talking about longevity.

1982-1991 = 9 years
2003-2013 = 10 years

no idea how you went to WSC over this tbh, you're just freaking out that someone suggested Viv and Sachin had parity in certain timeframes of their career.

 

[subshakerz]

1982-1991 = 9 years
2003-2013 = 10 years

no idea how you went to WSC over this tbh, you're just freaking out that someone suggested Viv and Sachin had parity in certain timeframes of their career.

To clarify when I was referring to longevity I meant overall careers in which Sachin was worldclass level in that time for a longer period. Hence more value to the team.

You can either look at individual years in which they averaged well or their best periods. For example Sachin has a nearly 18 year prime period averaging nearly 60 from 93 to 2011 start, almost Viv's entire career.

And please don't use the 'freaking out' line I used on you bro lol.

 

[Johan]

To clarify when I was referring to longevity I meant overall careers in which Sachin was worldclass level in that time for a longer period. Hence more value to the team.

You can either look at individual years in which they averaged well or their best periods. For example Sachin has a nearly 18 year prime period averaging nearly 60 from 93 to 2011 start, almost Viv's entire career.

And please don't use the 'freaking out' line I used on you bro lol.

I've more or less been convinced that Sachin is a greater Batsmen than Viv and always is ranked higher in my lists, for that very reason, longevity as he lasted longer, his prime of 93-2002 lasted longer than Viv's 76-81 and on that factor I've him higher. Viv's light burnt brighter but Sachin's burnt longer, I've made it very clear I don't think there's actually any output gap between the two against test standard sides, I was just comparing a specific timeframe of Viv to a specific timeframe of Sachin, similar in length, instead of comparing their overall careers.

well lol, Okay, though I do find it that you're extremely defensive of Sachin.

 

[Bolo.]

Dude YOU are the one asking me is compare on raw averages.

Like you cite his overall SR to prove him being more penetrative and when I point to the home/away split now you are 'haha look you're reading his away average blindly'. Don't be so silly.

I've mananged to completely avoid discussing Murali's average until you brought it up.

What kind of response are you expecting besides SR to calling Murali defensive?

I've picked position.on wicket taking that is consistent for Murali and Imran- it matters a lot. They are both greater than players with better away averages. How much do you think it matters? Can you apply the same principle to both of them?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

No.

There are more atg batsmen comparable to Sachin than there are bowling all rounders in Imrans league. Matter of fact there only 2 maybe 3 if we're stretching it (Hadlee, Miller and Pollock). But all of Sobers, Viv, Lara, Smith, Hobbs, Hutton, are objectively comparable to Sachin. Fwiw we seem to be in the Twighlight zone...

 

[shortpitched713]

Yeah given that Warne was aces in SL and wouldn't have McGrath and Gillespie to compete with, I back Warne to do it.

The question with Warne isn't how well he'd do on a favorable pitch. The question is how well he can replicate when consistently playing from behind instead of front-running. And being attacked more often, instead of mostly attacking a batsman putting up a defensive front.

 

[Coronis]

The question with Warne isn't how well he'd do on a favorable pitch. The question is how well he can replicate when consistently playing from behind instead of front-running. And being attacked more often, instead of mostly attacking a batsman putting up a defensive front.

Mm. Probably easier for Warne to attack with McGrath tying down an end compared to Murali and Vaas. (nice reversal of the classic “spinner holding down an end)

 

[akilana]

Sachin is just a great batsman Subz and they come a dime a dozen. He's nothing special beyond the length of his career. If you can point to the peerless Sachin performances then I'm all ears. The greatest Indian innings in recent times was VVS' vs Australia 2001. That's probably their greatest single series as well or one of. Kohli has some recent master pieces as well. But Sachin has nothing in that mold. Imran ie a bowling AR who's atg in his primary role is much rarer.

I have said this many times. It’s sad the greatest batsman since bradman doesn’t have a legendary series nor an innings for the ages. He was a great accumulator that played for a long time. He wasn’t a special player like Lara was. Pretty sure sachin doesn’t get rated this guy had he played for SA. Subs would be the first to call him overrated.

 

[kyear2]

Lol lol at "goldilocks" zone. Fwiw Subz knows that person is Marshall but he keeps coming up with excuses to discredit the man:

Marshall: 2.49WPI @46.7

That's just impressive.

 

[subshakerz]

The question with Warne isn't how well he'd do on a favorable pitch. The question is how well he can replicate when consistently playing from behind instead of front-running. And being attacked more often, instead of mostly attacking a batsman putting up a defensive front.

Like I said, he was a better counterattacking bowler than Murali who didn't like to be hit. So yeah it's speculative but if are going to play this game, I would much back Warne than Murali if they switched home careers. Warne has proven himself before McGrath came to the picture.

 

[subshakerz]

I have said this many times. It’s sad the greatest batsman since bradman doesn’t have a legendary series nor an innings for the ages. He was a great accumulator that played for a long time. He wasn’t a special player like Lara was. Pretty sure sachin doesn’t get rated this guy had he played for SA. Subs would be the first to call him overrated.

Sachin has several top drawer innings but I have critiqued him for lack of mega series.

There are more atg batsmen comparable to Sachin than there are bowling all rounders in Imrans league. Matter of fact there only 2 maybe 3 if we're stretching it (Hadlee, Miller and Pollock). But all of Sobers, Viv, Lara, Smith, Hobbs, Hutton, are objectively comparable to Sachin. Fwiw we seem to be in the Twighlight zone...

Then Warne must greater than Imran on this score.

well lol, Okay, though I do find it that you're extremely defensive of Sachin.

I get defensive of Viv too you know.

 

[subshakerz]

I've mananged to completely avoid discussing Murali's average until you brought it up.

What kind of response are you expecting besides SR to calling Murali defensive?

I've picked position.on wicket taking that is consistent for Murali and Imran- it matters a lot. They are both greater than players with better away averages. How much do you think it matters? Can you apply the same principle to both of them?

I don't think you know what my critique of Murali was. It wasn't on his level of penetration. It was that he wasnt as good a counterattacking bowler as Warne because his way to get wickets was inherently defensive (containment). And I gave examples.