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Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

  • Total voters
    28
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
smash84 said:
Honestly, your takes are fine. I can imagine if someone abstains in such a comparison because these bowlers are close.

What I find weird is that folks who take Warne over Imran won't take Warne over Ambrose. I don't see the argument of Warne > Imran but not Warne > Ambrose. All 3 bowlers are fairly close IMO, but fast bowlers tend to have an inherent advantage in these comparisons. They are just more destructive and far less condition-dependent. Spinners obviously can bowl longer but are usually easier to deal with than great fast bowlers.

Imran has plenty going for him even in a head to head with Ambrose too. Imran has 10 fers and match winning performances in England, Australia, West Indies (only if you talk about away performances, he has 3 more 10 fers at home as well) and generally has great output at a slightly higher average. Ambrose was more miserly and much better against Australia but he also was terrible against India. So it's not like it's a totally one-sided contest; it's close. What I find annoying is the transparent agenda of some folks.

Which is why I am genuinely interested in knowing why Warne > Imran but not Ambrose. I am not sure I quite understand how this works,
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So I'll specifically respond to the 3 highlighted parts.

Spinners are more conditions dependant, as was Imran.

The transparent agenda comes from your end, Subz going after any player that threatens Imran's rankings as a bowler.of all rounder, and openly saying it's his goal to take them down a peg or have them down graded.
It's also ignoring or trying to create equivocation between what transpired in Pakistan compared to the rest of the world, with comments like "everyone was doing it" or bringing up a singular match here or there to try to minimize what was occuring in Pakistan for over a decade.

For the last one, Ambrose is ranked higher, it's not a conspiracy.

For many there's the big 3, and the two spinners that's rated together and then Ambrose and Steyn who are together. Many like @Johan and myself go back and forth between on which duo is higher.

There's no conspiracy.

Both pacers had their issues, Steyn could be inconsistent and expensive. Ambrose after the injury had less pace and was less penetrative.

But both still had enough impressive feats where they're competitive with the spinners.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
kyear2 said:
So I'll specifically respond to the 3 highlighted parts.

Spinners are more conditions dependant, as was Imran.

The transparent agenda comes from your end, Subz going after any player that threatens Imran's rankings as a bowler.of all rounder, and openly saying it's his goal to take them down a peg or have them down graded.
It's also ignoring or trying to create equivocation between what transpired in Pakistan compared to the rest of the world, with comments like "everyone was doing it" or bringing up a singular match here or there to try to minimize what was occuring in Pakistan for over a decade.

For the last one, Ambrose is ranked higher, it's not a conspiracy.

For many there's the big 3, and the two spinners that's rated together and then Ambrose and Steyn who are together. Many like @Johan and myself go back and forth between on which duo is higher.

There's no conspiracy.

Both pacers had their issues, Steyn could be inconsistent and expensive. Ambrose after the injury had less pace and was less penetrative.

But both still had enough impressive feats where they're competitive with the spinners.
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Well, it seems you've maybe tried to answer the question but i do not understand anything here. Where is Steyn coming from :wacko: ?

What impressive feats make Ambrose in particular, competitive with the spinners but don't make Imran competitive with the spinners?
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
smash84 said:
Well, it seems you've maybe tried to answer the question but i do not understand anything here. Where is Steyn coming from :wacko: ?

What impressive feats make Ambrose in particular, competitive with the spinners but don't make Imran competitive with the spinners?
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Apparently Imran and spinners are condition dependent but not Ambrose. Yeah right.

Please tell me if he is going to keep addressing me he should directly engage in debate rather than hiding in ignore mode.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

First Class Debutant
subshakerz said:
Apparently Imran and spinners are condition dependent but not Ambrose. Yeah right.

Please tell me if he is going to keep addressing me he should directly engage in debate rather than hiding in ignore mode.
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Subz umm honey you've literally said it's been your stated goal to knock the likes of Ambrose, Lara etc down a peg or two. So I'm fairly confident no answer Kyear gives, would please you. You've tried the same crap with Marshall as well. And all to no avail. But keep trying....
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
Subz umm honey you've literally said it's been your stated goal to knock the likes of Ambrose, Lara etc down a peg or two. So I'm fairly confident no answer Kyear gives, would please you. You've tried the same crap with Marshall as well. And all to no avail. But keep trying....
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You've agreed with all my critiques.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

First Class Debutant
subshakerz said:
You've agreed with all my critiques.
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I agree with the Lara vs pace but not that Sachin was significantly better vs the great pace they both faced.

I agree Ambrose lost some zing post his surgery but Ambrose for me, still did enough b4 and post to warrant his atg status and place in the top 5. Butttttt Imran is up there with him (arguably).

You say Marshall only did well because he was part of a strong attack but I take exception to that. If he wasn't great and the pack leader, he'd have ended up like Patterson or Baptiste or other dregs. And you're yet to explain his high wpm which was up there with Hadlee for most of his career despite stiff competition.

So while I agree with parts of your various arguments, I don't share your conclusions. I'll give an example, you say Ambrose would suck given more matches in India. That's a reasonable take but imo, he'd balance that out with more matches in NZ and South Africa. Remember NZ was the first series Ambrose played post surgery and he was no where near 100% in RSA. He even missed a game as a result.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
Sachin was significantly better vs the great pace they both faced.

You say Marshall only did well because he was part of a strong attack

I'll give an example, you say Ambrose would suck given more matches in India.
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I've never argued any of these. You are making strawmans of my positions. I argue Tendulkar was better by but not like he was miles better since he didn't dominate them. I argue Marshall got a minor stat boost from being in a great attack. I argue it's hard to say how well Ambrose would be in India so he is unproven.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Sliferxxxx said:
Subz umm honey you've literally said it's been your stated goal to knock the likes of Ambrose, Lara etc down a peg or two. So I'm fairly confident no answer Kyear gives, would please you. You've tried the same crap with Marshall as well. And all to no avail. But keep trying....
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Salty wants to hate on players that I like.. its woeful.

Lara. Ambrose, Murali, Ashwin, Jaddu... :laugh:
 
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