Shakib Al Hasan vs The Great All Rounders

[honestbharani]

He is a hard guy to rank but you gotta give him his due. He belongs in the argument at the very least but yes I will still put the others above him. And I agree with Zin that he is in the Tony Greig level for now but if he keeps playing like he has been he will get into the bracket above that pretty soon.

 

[vcs]

Shakib has a long way to go to equal Kapil. Come on now. India also weren't all that strong when Kapil was doing his superhuman feats.

 

[indiaholic]

He is going to be around for at least 5 more years or so.. If Bangladesh start getting more test matches, his stock will rise in most people's eyes.

 

[Zinzan]

Btw, this same very thing happen with Angelo Mathews a couple of years back. some of you may remember. We were all hearing quite prematurely about how he was up with the big 4 with the bat, and was best player of swing/seam bowling around, only to get embarrassed against Wagner in NZ last year and not doing much since.

Might be wise to wait until players have played a decent number of games against quality opposition before jumping in with ATG labels.

 

[rtramdas]

i think people who compares Shakib with Kapil of late do so by just looking at their bat avg:s . But they must not forget these things. Shakib's
bat avg: is in about 85 inns in almost 10 years. Kapil's is in about 185 inns in just 15.5 years.More over Shakib is yet to play in AUS & IND.
Kapil faced some 20+ <25 avg; bowlers while Shakib has faced Murali,Steyn & Philander only till date.And his away record in various non minnow countries is way off deviated . Greame Hick comes immediately into memory. He was a monster in county cricket.In other words Hick had the best
temperament to face avg: to good bowlers.But when faced with ATG bowlers like Ambrose we all know what happend.Shakib's case as of now is similar.He seems to have better temperament than Kapil in facing avg: to good bowlers. But Kapil was a proven batsman against ATG bowlers.And since all it needs is a single delivery to finish of the inns, the technique & talent to face quality bowling is very important.Kapil was a proven batsman and way ahead in this regard.So this Kapil-Shakib batting comparison is just a mere case of 'stats with out context'.

 

[Tec15]

"Kapil was a proven batsman against ATG bowlers" My sides. Let me guess, the three hundreds against the Windies somehow means he was more than a slogger who averaged only 31. Or all the bowlers he smacked around are now retrospectively ATG level. Eddie Hemmings redeemed!!

The mythification of old players reaches comical status some times. A guy who averages 40 in the the present is a lesser batsman than someone who averaged 31 in the 80's because all the bowlers back then were super human monsters who delivered hand grenades and the guy who averaged 31 actually monstered all the ATG bowlers instead of feasting on all the fat 40 year old off-spinners and assorted hacks who actually populated most of the teams then.

 

[Shri]

"Kapil was a proven batsman against ATG bowlers" My sides. Let me guess, the three hundreds against the Windies somehow means he was more than a slogger who averaged only 31. Or all the bowlers he smacked around are now retrospectively ATG level. Eddie Hemmings redeemed!!

The mythification of old players reaches comical status some times. A guy who averages 40 in the the present is a lesser batsman than someone who averaged 31 in the 80's because all the bowlers back then were super human monsters who delivered hand grenades and the guy who averaged 31 actually monstered all the ATG bowlers instead of feasting on all the fat 40 year old off-spinners and assorted hacks who actually populated most of the teams then.

**** me, let's do this.

Shakib Al Sucks averages 13 in England, 11.5 in SA, 12 in SL with the bat, besides never playing a test in India and Australia. He's a hack, who people are condescendingly kind to at best. He should be compared to minnow allrounders and be rated accordingly.

 

[indiaholic]

Kapil averages 10 in NZ from 7 games.19 in Australia from 11 games.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah lol even the greatest all-rounders have crappy records against some or the other country.

 

[Shri]

\ /

 

[rtramdas]

"Kapil was a proven batsman against ATG bowlers" My sides. Let me guess, the three hundreds against the Windies somehow means he was more than a slogger who averaged only 31. Or all the bowlers he smacked around are now retrospectively ATG level. Eddie Hemmings redeemed!!

The mythification of old players reaches comical status some times. A guy who averages 40 in the the present is a lesser batsman than someone who averaged 31 in the 80's because all the bowlers back then were super human monsters who delivered hand grenades and the guy who averaged 31 actually monstered all the ATG bowlers instead of feasting on all the fat 40 year old off-spinners and assorted hacks who actually populated most of the teams then.

yeah ,,, you can play against a bunch of lower primary school kids and score 100s at will and avg; 50+ easily .Then that too must be taken for
comparison with out even giving a bit for the qlty: of bowling.

Kapil faced the likes of Lillee,Imran,Roberts,Marshall,Hadlee,Holding,Garner,Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Schultz, etc etc all thru his career. Personally the qlty of bowling counts a lot for me.

 

[Zinzan]

Kapil faced the likes of Lillee,Imran,Roberts,Marshall,Hadlee,Holding,Garner,Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Schultz, etc etc all thru his career. Personally the qlty of bowling counts a lot for me.

Don't forget Willis, Botham (first half of his career), & Walsh, Thomson, Alderman, Bruce Reid & Ambrose

 

[rtramdas]

Don't forget Willis, Botham (first half of his career), & Walsh, Thomson, Alderman, Bruce Reid & Ambrose

yeah add Underwood,S.Clarke,Murali,Warne & Bishop, ..... i think there were atleast 20 <25 avg: bowlers that Kapil faced. i will take that
31.05@ 81 str:rate any time over 41 vs a bunch of mediocre bowlers.

 

[indiaholic]

Shakib has faced Herath, Murali, Zaheer, Ntini, Steyn, Anderson, Ashwin, Swann, Morkel, Boult, Broad, Vaas, Kumble, Philander, Chuckmal etc. and he averages 10 runs more than Kapil.

 

[indiaholic]

Not arguing that Shakib is a better batsman than Kapil ftr.. I just feel that it is not a stupid comparison.

 

[Shri]

Shakib has faced Herath, Murali, Zaheer, Ntini, Steyn, Anderson, Ashwin, Swann, Morkel, Boult, Broad, Vaas, Kumble, Philander, Chuckmal etc. and he averages 10 runs more than Kapil.

Very few of those names are in the same league to who he faced.

 

[indiaholic]

Sure that is why he averages 33% more than him

 

[vcs]

Shakib doesn't get many opportunities to play the big sides, especially away. It's not his fault, but that means you cannot compare his raw numbers to guys like Kapil/Flintoff etc.

 

[Tec15]

He should be compared to minnow allrounders and be rated accordingly.

That's exactly why he's being compared to Kapil " I won only 24 test matches out of 131" Dev . Kapil is also the guy who gets condescending pity votes when discussing the best all rounders of the 80's, because of his win in the tallest short man competition that is India's best "fast" bowler . That and playing in the supposed "Golden Era" of the Eighties is why he's rated. You know it's true.

 

[Tec15]

yeah ,,, you can play against a bunch of lower primary school kids and score 100s at will and avg; 50+ easily .Then that too must be taken for
comparison with out even giving a bit for the qlty: of bowling.

Kapil faced the likes of Lillee,Imran,Roberts,Marshall,Hadlee,Holding,Garner,Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Schultz, etc etc all thru his career. Personally the qlty of bowling counts a lot for me.

Cool. A context less list of a bunch of players whose careers coincided with Kapil. Not given is how many matches Kapil actually played against them and what he did in them. These sepia toned memories always leave the impression that Kapil smashed his runs against the likes of Lillee and Holding instead of the likes of Greg Mathews and Eddie Hemmings. Players of the later quality are the ones who filled most of the teams of that era and ones against whom Kapil mostly played.