Shakib Al Hasan vs The Great All Rounders

[CricAddict]

Level 1: Sobers, Kallis etc
Level 2: Hadlee, Botham, Kapil etc
Level 3: Flintoff, Cairns, Pollock etc
Level 4: Watson, Jayasuriya, Ashwin, Stokes etc

To me, Shakib is in level 3 now.

 

[Athlai]

Better overall career yes, but don't forget Vettori was one of our best batsmen in the last 8-9 years of his career and averaged 40 with the bat IIRC, with about 6 hundreds. Also their bowling record is similar although in fairness Vettori played a much higher proportion of games against tougher opposition, even if he did get to bully Bangers & Zim a lot.

Stats only from 2003 excluding Bangladesh and Zim as opposition
Vettori 3044 @ 35.81, 158 W @ 42.61
Shakib 3005 @ 41.16, 150 W @ 34.74

It isn't even close frankly.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Level 1: Sobers, Kallis etc
Level 2: Hadlee, Botham, Kapil etc
Level 3: Flintoff, Cairns, Pollock etc
Level 4: Watson, Jayasuriya, Ashwin, Stokes etc

To me, Shakib is in level 3 now.

I'd have Pollock higher, but I agree.

 

[vcs]

Shakib's bowling action looks kind of ugly and ungainly, so that could be a reason why people don't rate him. I like watching him bat though.

 

[Zinzan]

Stats only from 2003 excluding Bangladesh and Zim as opposition
Vettori 3044 @ 35.81, 158 W @ 42.61
Shakib 3005 @ 41.16, 150 W @ 34.74

It isn't even close frankly.

How is it fair to exclude the two weakest teams Vettori played against, when Shakib hasn't ever played the strongest in his career, Australia?

I'm not saying it will make all the difference, but that query was very unfair on Vettori

 

[Zinzan]

if the FTP is accurate

Home v Pak 2 tests
Away v Aus 2 tests
Away v SA 2 tests
Home v SL 2 tests
Away v WI 2 tests

This is a great opportunity for Shakib and BAN to show what they are capable of I think

Agree, I think that will give us more of a reflection

 

[Zinzan]

Level 1: Sobers, Kallis etc
Level 2: Hadlee, Botham, Kapil etc
Level 3: Flintoff, Cairns, Pollock etc
Level 4: Watson, Jayasuriya, Ashwin, Stokes etc

To me, Shakib is in level 3 now.

Botham is Level 1 for me along with those two you mentioned and Imran & Miller.

Also, I'd still have Shakib at level 4, but as mentioned, in a year or so we'll get a better idea when he plays tougher sides away from home.

 

[Zinzan]

Shakib's bowling action looks kind of ugly and ungainly, so that could be a reason why people don't rate him. I like watching him bat though.

No I have no complaints about his action. just his record currently flatters due to so few Tests against top sides.

 

[Athlai]

How is it fair to exclude the two weakest teams Vettori played against, when Shakib hasn't ever played the strongest in his career, Australia?

I'm not saying it will make all the difference, but that query was very unfair on Vettori

Shakib would destroy Australia at home though.
Australia haven't exactly played spin well in Asia recently

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Zinzan]

Shakib would destroy Australia at home though.
Australia haven't exactly played spin well in Asia recently

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Thanks for reminding me of that... An immediate advantage vs. Vettori with the ball, who had to play half his Tests in NZ, which were terrible conditions for spin, especially in Vettori's era.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Can I consider Australia, West Indies and Pakistan as 3 of the better teams of the Kapil-Botham era? Kapil averages 28 with the bat vs them and Botham 27.

 

[Athlai]

Thanks for reminding me of that... An immediate advantage vs. Vettori with the ball, who had to play half his Tests in NZ, which were terrible conditions for spin, especially in Vettori's era.

Sucks to suck for Vettori

 

[ankitj]

Can I consider Australia, West Indies and Pakistan as 3 of the better teams of the Kapil-Botham era? Kapil averages 28 with the bat vs them and Botham 27.

England was probably the second best team of the era.

 

[honestbharani]

I would say Shakib is in Tier 2.5 at the moment.

 

[Zinzan]

Can I consider Australia, West Indies and Pakistan as 3 of the better teams of the Kapil-Botham era? Kapil averages 28 with the bat vs them and Botham 27.

Fair,, along with surprise surprise, New Zealand - probably 3rd best side after the WI & Pakistan in the 80s.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Can I consider Australia, West Indies and Pakistan as 3 of the better teams of the Kapil-Botham era? Kapil averages 28 with the bat vs them and Botham 27.

Australia were weak in the 80s. NZ were better than them - probably 2nd= in the decade with Pakistan (behind WI).

Quite interesting re batting - Botham averaged 40 against NZ; Kapil averaged 14.

 

[Zinzan]

England was probably the second best team of the era.

Nah, WI Pakistan & NZ were all better than England... NZ never lost a Test series at home in the 80s, including a series win against the Windies in 1980 and a 1-1 draw when they next visited in '87-88, as well as beating both Australia and England -home & away..

 

[Fuller Pilch]

England was probably the second best team of the era.

No they weren't. England were terrible. They lost series at home to everyone except Sri Lanka in the 80s.

 

[Zinzan]

Australia were weak in the 80s. NZ were better than them - probably 2nd= in the decade with Pakistan (behind WI).

Quite interesting re batting - Botham averaged 40 against NZ; Kapil averaged 14.

I looked at this recently, and IIRC Pakistan's 80s record was marginally better than NZ, so think it's fair to say we were 3rd in that decade.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Nah, WI Pakistan & NZ were all better than England... NZ never lost a Test series at home in the 80s, including a series win against the Windies in 1980 and a 1-1 draw when they next visited in '87-88, as well as beating both Australia and England away..

86-87 (pedantic I know)