Saeed Anwar vs. Virender Sehwag

[aussie]

I think Sehwag has already proven enough in pace friendly conditions as well. In fact his first century came on South African soil against a good attack. He has also made 100 against Warne and Mcgrath, the two greatest bowlers of this decade (alongwith Murali) on a difficult Chennai pitch as well.

Lord. I tired of people using these two examples (along with with Nottingham 2002). Ok well look even if people want to claim these conditions where bowler friendly & the pitches weren't flat. How do you explain these other failures in other bowler friendly conditions & quality pace attacks:

- Wellington 2002

- Bangalore 2004

- Nagpur 04

- Mumbai 04

- Karachi 06

- Entire 05/06 vs ENG

- Kingston 06

- Last 2 tests 06/07 vs SA (which lead to him beign dropped for a whole year for the same technical woes i'm talking about)

- the Ahmedabad & Nagpur tests

So thats 14 failures on bowler friendly tracks or vs quality pace attacks. While 3 so called success that some have claimed (which is disagree with) in bowler friendly tracks or vs quality pace attacks in Nottingham 02, his debut & Chennai 04. So even then its lopsided. Yall better give up..

 

[Sir Alex]

I did not say Sehwag suceeded in all testing conditions. No player perhaps in this side of 1950 has done that in my opinion. That does not mean he has never succeeded. Ponting has not succeeded in India which does not mean he is a terrible player of spin bowling. Tendulkar did not succeed much in SA and Pakistan which is also not proof of he being bad against pace.

 

[subshakerz]

I did not say Sehwag suceeded in all testing conditions. No player perhaps in this side of 1950 has done that in my opinion. That does not mean he has never succeeded. Ponting has not succeeded in India which does not mean he is a terrible player of spin bowling. Tendulkar did not succeed much in SA and Pakistan which is also not proof of he being bad against pace.

Except that Tendulkar has succeeded in pace friendly conditions and worldclass pace attacks often enough to remove any doubts about his ability. So did Anwar to a slightly lesser degree. Sehwag has not.

 

[Sir Alex]

I can disagree by saying the ratio of tendulkar's failure on such pitches to successes are almsot similar to Sehwag's but then it will be absurd. I am convinced Sehwag has in him to end up as one of the greatest modern era test openers.

 

[Shri]

He is already one of the greats of the modern era. He is saying that Anwar is slightly ahead of him if I understand his statement right.

 

[Ikki]

Except that Tendulkar has succeeded in pace friendly conditions and worldclass pace attacks often enough to remove any doubts about his ability. So did Anwar to a slightly lesser degree. Sehwag has not.

It's not a case of either/or. Pitch difficulty varies. Even if Sehwag scores runs on easier pitches, they shouldn't be discounted if they were against good attacks.

 

[subshakerz]

He is already one of the greats of the modern era. He is saying that Anwar is slightly ahead of him if I understand his statement right.

Yes. I would probably pick Sehwag and Hayden as the openers of the 2000s, and Anwar as the opener of the 90s. Its just that Anwar is ahead of Sehwag.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not a case of either/or. Pitch difficulty varies. Even if Sehwag scores runs on easier pitches, they shouldn't be discounted if they were against good attacks.

But that is precisely our point. On easier pitches, Sehwag is capable of trashing any worldclass attack, as he did to Shoaib in Multan and Steyn and co. in Chidambaram. But you take the same batsman and put him in sporting conditions against the same attack, and he will look average, as he did against in Karachi 06 and against SA in the rest of the series in Kanpur and Green Park when he in theory should have been in the form of his life. That wasnt necessarily the case with Tendulkar or Anwar.

I give Sehwag credit that when the pitch is easier there is no more dominating batsman in the world. But does anyone seriously think he would be capable of such destruction in the 90s. No way.

 

[Top_Cat]

I give Sehwag credit that when the pitch is easier there is no more dominating batsman in the world. But does anyone seriously think he would be capable of such destruction in the 90s. No way.

There is absolutely no way of knowing that.

The argument is essentially what Anwar did vs what Sehwag might have done assuming he wouldn't have changed his approach had he been around playing in the 90's. It's absurd.

 

[Burgey]

I think they'd have been a good opening pair to watch if they batted together.

 

[Top_Cat]

I think they'd have been a good opening pair to watch if they batted together.

Sehwag/Gambhir seems quite similar to what Sehwag/Anwar would have batted like.

 

[aussie]

There is absolutely no way of knowing that.



The argument is essentially what Anwar did vs what Sehwag might have done assuming he wouldn't have changed his approach had he been around playing in the 90's. It's absurd.

How is it absurd?. Firstly of course we would not be able to prove it practically, since we cant transport Sehwag back into the 90s or whatever.

But if you have seen Sehwag bat in tests & fail consistently in bowler friendly conditions againts quality pace attacks, with the glaring technical flaws in his game (deliveries swinging into his pads which i'm sure you rememeber how AUS had him skating in 2004 which many other bowlers have exposed - plus his inability to play short pitched bowling).

Just be cricketening sense alone, you equate those problems with the fact the 90s had many quality pace attacks & it is pretty obvious that Sehwag would not have been a success if he played in 90s averaging 50.

Sehwag/Gambhir seems quite similar to what Sehwag/Anwar would have batted like.

Nah Anwar & Gambhir are totally different in style tbf.

 

[Ikki]

But if Sehwag played in a predominantly pitch-friendlier era, he'd face more difficulty, which would mean a better chance of him improving more; and he'd probably change his approach because of it.

 

[Top_Cat]

But if Sehwag played in a predominantly pitch-friendlier era, he'd face more difficulty, which would mean a better chance of him improving more; and he'd probably change his approach because of it.

No, Ikki. No player has ever changed their game or improved.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

It isn't like Anwar was a huge success in the 90s. If you're arguing that Sehwag wouldn't have averaged 50 in the 1990s (we have no way of knowing this), Anwar DID NOT average 50 in the 1990s, so what is your point? He averaged 46 in the 1990s with a SR of 57. The question is if Sehwag's average would have gone down by more than 4 points and his SR by more than 23.I really don't think so.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

And Anwar's average in the 00s is 42.87 and a SR of less than 50 in 11 matches. Now I am sure you're going to come up with "he was past his peak", but somehow he was past his peak only against England in England in the 00s averaging 15.Against Bangladesh, he was at his best scoring a 100 in the only match he played.

 

[honestbharani]

The question was whether any of his 9 centuries in drawn games changed the result from defeat to draw. None of those work

By the time India batted for a second time in Adelaide the match was heading to a draw, India didn't even complete their innings.

In Chennai, the match could either have been lost, drawn or won, so we don't know if his innings changed the result.

In Mohali, his innings set up a victory which India couldnt pull out, didnt save India from defeat.

Triple against SA was on a dead pitch when the result was a draw from the first ball bowled.

Again, none of these were pace friendly pitches, all were more than helpful to the batsman.

India could have lost easily in Adelaide.. I dunno why you think it was definitely heading for a draw. He was opening the batting as well and the commentators talked about an Aussie win till about tea...



And in Chennai, but for his 150, we would have EASILY lost... Again, dunno which game you were watching but he was the ONLY reason amongst Indian batters why all 3 results were possible going into day 5.


No, he didn't save us from defeat. But it was not his fault our bowlers could not run through a Pakistan line up. He set up a win which was not taken advantage of by his bowlers. Why should he be blamed and his innings be counted as a bad one? It was a match winning innings had he had better bowlers... To blame him for that draw is ridiculous.


The same dead pitch where our middle and lower order could not buy even a single run? yeah likely. And funny things happen even on a flat track when the opposition have got a big score. Had he been dismissed early, it is well probable we would have been bowled out for 300 odd. Might just have set up RSA for a win...

 

[aussie]

No, Ikki. No player has ever changed their game or improved.

In case you & Ikki didn't realise. Mr.Sehwag was dropped by India for the entire 2007 for the same technical issues that i am talking about & since his return @ Adelaide 07/08, the only time he has come up againts quality pace attack in testing conditions since his return in the last 2 test of the SA test series 07/08. Those technical flaws have remained & where exposed again.

The most recent examples of this, was the first ODI vs Australia when Lee had him out caught behind. Also the first innings of 1st test vs SRI in the only bowler friendly session of that series to date, when Welegedara got him LBW.

So unless i see some improvement in Sehwag technically i will expect him to fail the next time he faces a quality pace attack in testing conditions or againts bowlers who can bowl good inswingers well.

 

[G.I.Joe]

He wasn't dropped for technical issues. He was dropped because he wasn't scoring runs, plain and simple. The two needn't be related. His problem was that he was beginning to bat in tests in the same ******** way he bats in ODIs. It was a mental issue, not a technical one. Stop making up stuff.

 

[aussie]

He wasn't dropped for technical issues. He was dropped because he wasn't scoring runs, plain and simple. The two needn't be related.

What?. He wasn't scoring runs because he was exposed technically contiously. If you are going to tell for example Matthew Hoggard didn't own Sehwag in 05/06, Asif & Akhtar Karachi 06, Taylor in Kingston 06 & SA seamers in 06/07. I dont know what you where watching, you living in denial son..

His problem was that he was beginning to bat in tests in the same ******** way he bats in ODIs. It was a mental issue, not a technical one. Stop making up stuff.

That ******** way he he bats in ODIs hasn't gone away. Thats the beauty of Sehwag's batting he plays the same ultra aggressive way regardless of circumstances. I thought he may have brought some maturity to his batting was after he scored that hundred in Adelaide & after the triple. But in the last two test of SA series 08/09 when Steyn & co got bowler friendly conditions it was de ja vu all over again.