Saeed Anwar vs. Virender Sehwag

[aussie]

You are impossible. If really there was an inswing deficiency of Sehwag, people would have already mentioned it on the internet.

Am it is on the internet. Have you ever heard of cricinfo match reports?

 

[Shri]

*ahem*

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/44959-experience-draft-3.html#post2083359

Its not like I had many options. <_<

 

[Shri]

There is a minute chance that Sehwag could have been as good as Anwar in the 90s. There is no chance in hell that Anwar can ever hope to be as good as Sehwag in getting big scores if they play in the same type of pitches.

 

[aussie]

I agree that inswinging delivery is indeed a defect for Sehwag. But tell me who is not prone to good swing bowler.

All batsmen are. But the ones who have the least technical flaws in their game are always likely to succed more often than not, againts a quaity swing bolwer/bowler friendly conditions - than a Sehwag type batsman who has more technical flaws.

 

[subshakerz]

There is a minute chance that Sehwag could have been as good as Anwar in the 90s. There is no chance in hell that Anwar can ever hope to be as good as Sehwag in getting big scores if they play in the same type of pitches.

Neither are Dravid or Tendulkar as good in getting big scores. Is Sehwag better than them?

By the way, I'm pretty sure if Anwar was playing nowadays, he'd be averaging a few points higher than Sehwag right now.

 

[Shri]

I didn't say that. Was just waiting for someone to respond to that post. I am satisfied. The rest of you guys can carry on.

 

[aussie]

One performance doesn't make one great. That is distinct.

Ha yet you JUST said:

It's cricket in the end and if you have proven once, you can prove it again

Haha. Serious double standard.

[Australians are not the greatest players of spin bowling.

Yes in 2004 AUS won in SRI & IND. Conquering Murali/Harbhajan/Kumble & because Chandana took a freak 10 wicket haul AUS in glory years cant couldn't play spin.

[When did I say I rated on current test performances? I have seen him in FC cricket against good attacks and there is no doubt in my mind.

IND has quality pace attacks in FC cricket?. Ha, well why haven't those bowlers played tests yet..

 

[Sir Alex]

Aussie, could you please list down reasons or innings where Anwar & Hayden have decimated a world class bowling lineup in trying conditions?

 

[aussie]

Aussie, could you please list down reasons or innings where Anwar & Hayden have decimated a world class bowling lineup in trying conditions?

Technically they have never decimated a world class pace bowling attack in testing conditons. But thats very hard to do, world class pacers aren't easily decimated, although it has happened.

But they have scored runs/hundreds againts very good/great attacks in bowler friendly conditons:

For Hayden it would be:

- Oval 05
- All hundreds vs SA 05/06 (home/away)
- Melbounre 06/07

While although this isn't technically a very/good great attack. His hundreds in the Sydney & MCG test vs IND 07/08 where very good since ATT Khan, RP Singh, Sharma where getting alot of seam movement. I am sure you remember of Sharma had Ponting going. While Hayden stood up like a rock.

Those two innings Hayden showed he eradicated his flaw againts inswingers. Since in the past even average test bowlers like Kyle Mills 04 & the out of from Gough/Caddick Ashes 01, where able to trouble him when the slightest of movement was present.


For Anwar:

- Runs/hundreds in AUS 99/00
- Runs/hundreds in SA 97/98

 

[Sir Alex]

Technically they have never decimated a world class pace bowling attack in testing conditons. But thats very hard to do, world class pacers aren't easily decimated, although it has happened.

But they have scored runs/hundreds againts very good/great attacks in bowler friendly conditons:

For Hayden it would be:

- Oval 05
- All hundreds vs SA 05/06 (home/away)
- Melbounre 06/07

While although this isn't technically a very/good great attack. His hundreds in the Sydney & MCG test vs IND 07/08 where very good since ATT Khan, RP Singh, Sharma where getting alot of seam movement. I am sure you remember of Sharma had Ponting going. While Hayden stood up like a rock.

Those two innings Hayden showed he eradicated his flaw againts inswingers. Since in the past even average test bowlers like Kyle Mills 04 & the out of from Gough/Caddick Ashes 01, where able to trouble him when the slightest of movement was present.

The Oval? It is renowned to be a batting pitch for years now.
Away 100s in 2002 series did not have Pollock and possessed Donald who was way past his peak. Ntini was very raw then. Home 100s were against SA had Pollock as the only inform bowler in that team.
If you are including Melbourne 06-07 which was made against a very raw Ishant Sharma (he never really troubled left handers) and the rest like RP and Irfan then Sehwag's melbourne 194 should also qualify.

Hayden never eradicated his inswinger issues and that was relevant from his last few series. How many times did Zaheer use that to get him bowled or lbw in the 2008 series.

For Anwar:

- Runs/hundreds in AUS 99/00
- Runs/hundreds in SA 97/98

He scored all of one 100 in Australia. Sehwag has two hundreds in Australia.
Again just 1 more 100 in South Africa, in that same match Azhar Mahmood scored 138. His overall average in SA is poor also. Sehwag also has a splendid hundred against a very similar attack also in South Africa

 

[subshakerz]

He scored all of one 100 in Australia. Sehwag has two hundreds in Australia.
Again just 1 more 100 in South Africa, in that same match Azhar Mahmood scored 138. His overall average in SA is poor also. Sehwag also has a splendid hundred against a very similar attack also in South Africa

Sehwag's hundreds in Australia and SA were against attacks well inferior to the ones Anwar faced. Anwar faced McGrath & Fleming and Donald/Pollock/De Villiers/Klusener at the height of their powers and did well in the series overall, not just one innings.

 

[subshakerz]

Hayden never eradicated his inswinger issues and that was relevant from his last few series. How many times did Zaheer use that to get him bowled or lbw in the 2008 series.

I agree with this actually. It's no coincidence that Hayden's losses in form have come at the same time he faced high quality express bowling. He struggled in the beginning with Donald/ Pollock and Ambrose, then in mid-career with Shoaib and the Ashes quartet, then towards the end with Sharma, Zaheer and Steyn.

 

[ret]

Sehwag's hundreds in Australia and SA were against attacks well inferior to the ones Anwar faced. Anwar faced McGrath & Fleming and Donald/Pollock/De Villiers/Klusener at the height of their powers.

Does that mean that Sehwag can't score score a 100 against the attacks you mentioned? .... If not then what the point of that?

 

[Cruxdude]

Can anyone give me an innings better than Sehwag's 201* at Galle. That was a masterclass and played in tough conditions against tough bowlers.

 

[aussie]

The Oval? It is renowned to be a batting pitch for years now.

Clearly you didn't watch that test match, since the was a extremely bowler friendly deck. Hayden had to bat out of skins since his career was on the line then.

Plus the Oval is not batting pitch like lets say Centurion in SA or Antigua. It is the most sporting pitch in ENG very similar to Brisbane, consistent bounce for bowlers & batsmen get value for shots.

Although yes they has been a few flat decks, but not the Oval 05, geez

Away 100s in 2002 series did not have Pollock and possessed Donald who was way past his peak. Ntini was very raw then. Home 100s were against SA had Pollock as the only inform bowler in that team.

Am i did not mentioned his performances vs SA 2001/02?. So i dont know what you ranting about that series for.

I was talking about 05/06. Which had Ntini at his peak & Nel which as bowling attack overall was better than SA 08/09 attack that toured AUS.

If you are including Melbourne 06-07

No Melboure 06/07 was againts ENG. Hoggard & Flintoff in one of the few bowler friendly pitches of that series.

which was made against a very raw Ishant Sharma (he never really troubled left handers) and the rest like RP and Irfan then Sehwag's melbourne 194 should also qualify.

Your confused:

- Firstly Pathan didn't play in the MCG test 07/08. Khan & Singh did.

- Secondly MCG 07/08 was definately bowler friendly come on. Khan who was in top form then was getting big swing that morning & so was RP. AUS bowlers also had INDs batting in all sorts of problems, they didn't evens score 200 in the match.

- When Sehwag scored 195 MCG 03.04. That was an average AUS attack on a flat pitch.

Hayden never eradicated his inswinger issues and that was relevant from his last few series. How many times did Zaheer use that to get him bowled or lbw in the 2008 series.

You do remember than Hayden went into that IND series after not playing international cricket for about 8 months after recovering from an anke injury.

Khan got Hayden with good inswingers yes. But Hayden dealt with him in far superior bowler friendly pitches in AUS 8 months. So Hayden wasn't technically exposed or anything, he was a bit off the pace coming back from a long lay off.

He scored all of one 100 in Australia. Sehwag has two hundreds in Australia.

How can attack that Sehwag faced in 03/04 of Gillespie(out of form -Lee/Bichel/Williams/Beacken (average/poor test bowler then) & MacGill (proven failure againts good players of spin).

Plus AUS 07/08 of Lee/Clark & Johnson/Hogg (Johnson was still raw then) on flat pitches

Be compared to the attack Anwar faced in 99/00 of McGrath/Fleming/Kasper/Warne of regular bowler friendly conditions (although the pitches where flat at times during that series)??

Again just 1 more 100 in South Africa, in that same match Azhar Mahmood scored 138. His overall average in SA is poor also. Sehwag also has a splendid hundred against a very similar attack also in South Africa

Ha, again how can a SA attack than Sehwag faced on Pollock/Ntini/Hayward/Kallis/Klusener. Especially where Nitni/Haward where young & raw & Kallis & Klusener where passed their peak on a flat pitch. (Although some here think that pitch wasn't flat odly).

Sehwag failed in his second tour to SA in 05/06 againts a FAR better SA attack. Averaging 14 in the series. MY GOD.

Compared to the SA attack Anwar faced in SA of Donald/Pollock/De Villiers/Klusener/Kallis who all where at their best??. Anwar averaged 47 in his only full series in SA. You cant judge a player on an a performance in a one-off test, come on now.

Plus so what if Mahmood did exceptionally well in that series?. That clearly was a fluke since Mahmood didn't live up to that early talent.

 

[Sir Alex]

Anwar also had only 1 100 and going by his overall average his century also can be called a fluke.

 

[aussie]

Can anyone give me an innings better than Sehwag's 201* at Galle. That was a masterclass and played in tough conditions against tough bowlers.

Martyn & Langer's hundreds in SRI 04 & Fleming 274* in SRI 03/04 are comparable innings againts quality spinners in tough conditions.

 

[aussie]

Anwar also had only 1 100 and going by his overall average his century also can be called a fluke.

Indeed. Similarly also because Gary Sobers scored just one hundred vs or in NZ. The fact the he averaged 23 againts those fantastic Kiwi bowlers overall. That one hundred was a clearly a fluke.

 

[Furball]

Clearly you didn't watch that test match, since the was a extremely bowler friendly deck. Hayden had to bat out of skins since his career was on the line then.

No it wasn't.

England largely threw their wickets away on the 1st Day.

Australia were extremely comfortable in their first innings until weather and time constrictions forced them to play in conditions on the 4th day that ordinarily would have seen the batsmen take the light and sit out the rest of the day on the balcony. At one point, the stump mic picked up Flintoff walking past the umpire between deliveries telling the umpire (Bowden iirc) to put some lights on the bails as he couldn't see them. Hence the collapse to some outstanding bowling from Flintoff and Hoggard.

The pitch was still pretty flat on the 5th day as well.

 

[Top_Cat]

No it wasn't.

England largely threw their wickets away on the 1st Day.

Australia were extremely comfortable in their first innings until weather and time constrictions forced them to play in conditions on the 4th day that ordinarily would have seen the batsmen take the light and sit out the rest of the day on the balcony. At one point, the stump mic picked up Flintoff walking past the umpire between deliveries telling the umpire (Bowden iirc) to put some lights on the bails as he couldn't see them. Hence the collapse to some outstanding bowling from Flintoff and Hoggard.

The pitch was still pretty flat on the 5th day as well.

AWTA, deck was just as flat as the others in the series, maybe a touch quicker onto the bat.