ripper868
International Coach
fixed
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Rugby Union All-Time Draft
- Thread starter 99*
- Start date
With so many five-eighths being selected, I'll have to pick one now I think. There's only two more five-eighths who I consider in the upper-tier, so I'll pick one now. I select Cliff Morgan, arguably Wales' greatest ever flyhalf and possibly the best flyhalf ever. Personally in terms of great flyhalfs, I rate Porta the best in terms of individual brilliance, Ella the best in terms of constructive brilliance and Morgan the best in terms of having the best legacy.
Morgan played in a different era where you really had to be about your wits. Morgan used heavy leather balls, received no lengthy spin passes, lineouts spread across the field, wing-forwards 10 yards away. To succeed then required speed off the mark, good feet, imagination and flair.
Morgan:
* Captained Wales
* Beat the All Blacks with Wales (the last time Wales have beat New Zealand) and CARDIFF!
* Beat the Boks as a Lion (scoring the famous winning try in front of 100,000 at Ellis Park). Honestly, that Lions side scored 26 tries in four Tests. That's unbelievable in any area. If a try was worth mroe than three points in those days, the Lions would have won 4-0, which would have sent shockwaves through the rugby world.
* Won a Grand Slam in ‘52.
* Was a legendary Barbarian.
* Kept Carwyn James out of the Welsh side.
Morgan played in a different era where you really had to be about your wits. Morgan used heavy leather balls, received no lengthy spin passes, lineouts spread across the field, wing-forwards 10 yards away. To succeed then required speed off the mark, good feet, imagination and flair.
Morgan:
* Captained Wales
* Beat the All Blacks with Wales (the last time Wales have beat New Zealand) and CARDIFF!
* Beat the Boks as a Lion (scoring the famous winning try in front of 100,000 at Ellis Park). Honestly, that Lions side scored 26 tries in four Tests. That's unbelievable in any area. If a try was worth mroe than three points in those days, the Lions would have won 4-0, which would have sent shockwaves through the rugby world.
* Won a Grand Slam in ‘52.
* Was a legendary Barbarian.
* Kept Carwyn James out of the Welsh side.
There are a few better five-eighth choices than Botha that haven't been selected yet if you ask me.
I have the 1986 Cavaliers tour on tape and Botha was pretty good in those matches. But he is unquestionably the most allergic player I have ever seen when it comes to tackling. The man wanted nothing to do with tackling. In all the games I saw I never saw him make one tackle. His best effort came in the 1st "Test" where Grant Fox ran at him and he pulled Fox's jersey, slowing him down enough to get tackled by a loosie (forget who) coming across in cover.
It wasn't so much a problem back in 1986 because teams didn't focus on hitting the 10-12 channel as much as they do now. These days five-eighths are required to do far more tackling. Also, Grant Fox stood incredibly deep in those days and really didn't attack the advantage line. I can't help but wonder how Botha would have fared against Mark Ella, who would always always attempt to draw the openside flanker and five-eighth into tackling him. I've seen a game Ella played against Ireland in 1984 and if you didn't try to tackle him, he'd take the ball as far as the advantage line, if not beyond. In that 1984 game Ella scored a wonderful try (handling twice) where the Irish five-eighth didn't try to tackle him. In my mind, Ella would have gotten the better of Botha.
As a kicker Botha was pretty impressive. In particular I admired his coolness when deep in his own 22. Every time he was under tremendous pressure his clearing kicks were phenominal. He possessed a beautiful balance that allowed him to kick off either foot with no problems. This balance also allowed him to drop-goals on the run, although for my taste he went for too many drop goals because he didn't succeed as much as I'd expected (considering his reputation as the drop-goal king).
But if I had to criticise him for something else, it's that his 1st, 2nd and 3rd instinct was to kick the ball, even when he was in the Caveliers 22. Occasionally he would spread the ball out wide and he was pretty good at it. But there was one moment I noticed where Botha kicked the ball ahead when he had an overlap outside of him! That was just Botha it seems, he kicked the ball too much.
For mine, he's not one of the 10 best flyhalfs ever, though he'd be close. He never made tackles, and I literally mean NEVER. And despite being a fantastic kicker, he kicked the ball too much.
I have the 1986 Cavaliers tour on tape and Botha was pretty good in those matches. But he is unquestionably the most allergic player I have ever seen when it comes to tackling. The man wanted nothing to do with tackling. In all the games I saw I never saw him make one tackle. His best effort came in the 1st "Test" where Grant Fox ran at him and he pulled Fox's jersey, slowing him down enough to get tackled by a loosie (forget who) coming across in cover.
It wasn't so much a problem back in 1986 because teams didn't focus on hitting the 10-12 channel as much as they do now. These days five-eighths are required to do far more tackling. Also, Grant Fox stood incredibly deep in those days and really didn't attack the advantage line. I can't help but wonder how Botha would have fared against Mark Ella, who would always always attempt to draw the openside flanker and five-eighth into tackling him. I've seen a game Ella played against Ireland in 1984 and if you didn't try to tackle him, he'd take the ball as far as the advantage line, if not beyond. In that 1984 game Ella scored a wonderful try (handling twice) where the Irish five-eighth didn't try to tackle him. In my mind, Ella would have gotten the better of Botha.
As a kicker Botha was pretty impressive. In particular I admired his coolness when deep in his own 22. Every time he was under tremendous pressure his clearing kicks were phenominal. He possessed a beautiful balance that allowed him to kick off either foot with no problems. This balance also allowed him to drop-goals on the run, although for my taste he went for too many drop goals because he didn't succeed as much as I'd expected (considering his reputation as the drop-goal king).
But if I had to criticise him for something else, it's that his 1st, 2nd and 3rd instinct was to kick the ball, even when he was in the Caveliers 22. Occasionally he would spread the ball out wide and he was pretty good at it. But there was one moment I noticed where Botha kicked the ball ahead when he had an overlap outside of him! That was just Botha it seems, he kicked the ball too much.
For mine, he's not one of the 10 best flyhalfs ever, though he'd be close. He never made tackles, and I literally mean NEVER. And despite being a fantastic kicker, he kicked the ball too much.
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chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
OMG a post without large text, FFS what have you done with Francis. Whatever it is don't let him come back.
ohtani's jacket
State Vice-Captain
I agree with Francis' comments about Botha, but he was the kind of first five who controlled the game from the pocket (and needed protecting like a quarterback does from the sack). Defensively, other guys had to pick up the slack and cover for his abhorrence towards tackling, but he was masterful at controlling the shape of a game and probably could've played more expansively if the Boks hadn't been pack orientated. In Botha's era, he played what amounted to winning rugby and the Boks would have slaughtered the Wallabies.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Micheal up for two picks.
Michaelf7777777
International Debutant
Trevor Allen (Centre) and Kevin Skinner (Prop) for my picks please
