Richards vs. Tendulkar -Tests

[Maximus0723]

To?

sir alex, voting ponting.

 

[Ikki]

Removing Sri Lanka is a no brainer? You are amusing Ikki. Also Zimbawe that Tendulkar played was not a minnow either.

You must have missed the edit. You're not fooling anyone Precam; including both Sri Lanka and S.Africa still hurts Sachin overall...doesn't it? I suppose you thought by giving up Sri Lanka, removing S.Africa would look less suspicious. Unfortunately for both of us, I've spent too much time looking at these players' records.

 

[Ikki]

sir alex, voting ponting.

Ask him yourself or use the search function. I'm on my phone and it would take me an eternity to link you from here. But his silence and non-denial should be enough

 

[Sir Alex]

You must have missed the edit. You're not fooling anyone Precam; including both Sri Lanka and S.Africa still hurts Sachin overall...doesn't it? I suppose you thought by giving up Sri Lanka, removing S.Africa would look less suspicious. Unfortunately for both of us, I've spent too much time looking at these players' records.

That is purely because the more number of test matches that Sachin played vs South Africans.

You did not answer my question. If you are comparing a SA less Richards average of 50 with a SA included average of Tendulkar, aren't you automatically assuming Richards would've averaged 50 against them as well?

 

[Maximus0723]

Ask him yourself or use the search function. I'm on my phone and it would take me an eternity to link you from here. But his silence and non-denial should be enough

Cool. Just wanted to see reason behind his denial.

 

[Sir Alex]

The best pacers he faced were Dennis Lillee (a class act), Imran Khan, Bob Willis and the great Sir Richard Hadlee. The best spin bowler he had to face was Abdul Qadir who was at best average.

Tendulkar on the other hand had faced all time greats like Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram (at prime), Shoiab Akthar, Glenn McGrath, Shane Bond, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Dale Steyn, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop etc and greatest ever spinners like Shane Warne and Muthiah Muralitharan.

Make no doubt, 80s were much easier period to bat particularly if you were a West Indian.

 

[Zinzan]

Make no doubt, 80s were much easier period to bat particularly if you were a West Indian.

Don't think it's quite that conclusive. There were some pretty fresh wickets around in the 80's. You'd need to do a proper analysis to so confidently make that assertion

 

[Craig]

Tendulkar by a huge margin? What a joke.

Yeah, agreed. I haven't voted on this thread yet because I still don't know where I fall on the issue. It was easier for me to cast my vote in the ODI thread for Tendulkar than it is here - somewhat ironic as the voting here is clear cut in comparison to that thread.

Also, the fact that votes are going in a certain way on CW is hardly indicative of anything, on any poll, for any player, ever. "Your" player getting more votes than another player on an obscure site with a small and somewhat cossetted membership does not mean anything. People really need to get over themselves.

I don't know about you two, but I voted for SRT on the basis that I have seen SRT play, a lot, and I never got that chance with Richards. All I know of him is reading loads of books, magazine articles, cricinfo and statsguru, this forum, and really that is about it. So making my vote on the basis of watching them play (shock horror), I can only go for Tendulkar.

Maybe that is why other people went for Tendulkar, I don't know. Plus different era's etc., a rather pointless poll.

 

[Sir Alex]

Don't think it's quite that conclusive. There were some pretty fresh wickets around in the 80's. You'd need to do a proper analysis to so confidently make that assertion

Yes

I took up a list of bowlers who had averages of 30 or less during Richards' time and Tendulkars' time, and I omitted the respective West Indian and Indian bowlers.

Tendulkar faced bowlers like below: (Min qual 100 wickets)

Sl No	Player  		Mat  	Wkts  	 Avg 
1	CEL Ambrose (WI) 	87	356	 20.68 
2	GD McGrath (Aus) 	124	563	 21.64 
3	AA Donald (SA) 		72	330	 22.25 
4	M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 132	792	 22.71 
5	Wasim Akram (Pak) 	79	338	 22.72 
6	SM Pollock (SA) 	108	421	 23.11 
7	DW Steyn (SA) 		38	196	 23.51 
8	Waqar Younis (Pak) 	87	373	 23.56 
9	IR Bishop (WI) 		43	161	 24.27 
10	CA Walsh (WI) 		104	420	 24.28 
11	SK Warne (Aus) 		145	708	 25.41 
12	Shoaib Akhtar (Pak) 	46	178	 25.69 
13	JN Gillespie (Aus) 	71	259	 26.13 
14	CJ McDermott (Aus) 	47	211	 26.52 
15	PR Reiffel (Aus) 	35	104	 26.96 
16	ARC Fraser (Eng) 	46	177	 27.32 
17	MG Hughes (Aus) 	44	178	 27.44 
18	HH Streak (Zim) 	65	216	 28.14 
19	D Gough (Eng) 		58	229	 28.39 
20	MG Johnson (Aus) 	32	143	 28.45 
21	M Ntini (SA) 		101	390	 28.82 
22	SCG MacGill (Aus) 	44	208	 29.02 
23	CL Cairns (NZ) 		62	218	 29.40 
24	WPUJC Vaas (SL) 	111	355	 29.58 
25	DG Cork (Eng) 		37	131	 29.81 
26	Saqlain Mushtaq (Pak) 	49	208	 29.83 
27	AR Caddick (Eng) 	62	234	 29.91

Richards faced:

SL	Player  		Span  		Mat  	Wkts  	 Avg 
1	Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 	1976-1990 	79	411	 21.59 
2	Imran Khan (Pak) 	1976-1991 	83	357	 22.25 
3	DK Lillee (Aus) 	1975-1984 	56	292	 23.73 
4	Wasim Akram (Pak) 	1985-1991 	39	143	 24.51 
5	RGD Willis (Eng) 	1975-1984 	76	280	 24.55 
6	BA Reid (Aus) 		1985-1991 	25	106	 24.74 
7	BS Bedi (India) 	1975-1979 	30	128	 26.85 
8	TM Alderman (Aus) 	1981-1991 	41	170	 27.15 
9	DL Underwood (Eng) 	1975-1982 	37	121	 28.00 
10	Iqbal Qasim (Pak) 	1976-1988 	50	171	 28.11 
11	IT Botham (Eng) 	1977-1991 	99	380	 28.26 
12	RM Hogg (Aus) 		1978-1984 	38	123	 28.47 
13	CJ McDermott (Aus) 	1984-1991 	33	136	 28.84 
14	JR Thomson (Aus) 	1975-1985 	47	176	 29.00 
15	MG Hughes (Aus) 	1985-1991 	34	131	 29.17 
16	GR Dilley (Eng) 	1979-1989 	41	138	 29.76 
17	N Kapil Dev (India) 	1978-1991 	112	385	 29.81

There were 12 bowlers during Tendulkar's time in the opposition averaging below 26 as compared to 6 during Richards' time.

 

[Sir Alex]

There isn't much of a huge difference in overall averages.

During Richards' time 32.47 and while Tendulkar's time it is 33.2.

Ignoring respective teams' figures,

Richards' - 32.79
Tendulkars'- 33.01 (Including minnows)
Tendulkars' - 33.16 (excluding minnows)

 

[Sir Alex]

Richards enjoyed a 45+ average only against 2 teams : India and England out of he 5 he played (40%)
Tendulkar had a 50+ average against 8 teams (out of 10) - 80%

 

[Ikki]

The best pacers he faced were Dennis Lillee (a class act), Imran Khan, Bob Willis and the great Sir Richard Hadlee. The best spin bowler he had to face was Abdul Qadir who was at best average.

Tendulkar on the other hand had faced all time greats like Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram (at prime), Shoiab Akthar, Glenn McGrath, Shane Bond, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Dale Steyn, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop etc and greatest ever spinners like Shane Warne and Muthiah Muralitharan.

Make no doubt, 80s were much easier period to bat particularly if you were a West Indian.

There are some notables you've listed there and some not really. But of those that Tendulkar did face in the above, he only really succeeded against WIndies/Sri Lanka attacks. His record against the rest is poor to mediocre.

 

[GotSpin]

Just a minor point, but the compilation of bowling lists tends to lend ignorance to the conditions that prevailed at the time. I assume no one would deny that the pitches and conditions during the 80s were far far less favourable to the batsmen and as such, the quality of bowlers during Richards era, while they may not have been as numerous as compared to the Sachin era, would still have made batting just as difficult due to the conditions that batsmen were placed under, rendering any comparison of bowling eras as fairly useless.

 

[Sir Alex]

There are some notables you've listed there and some not really. But of those that Tendulkar did face in the above, he only really succeeded against WIndies/Sri Lanka attacks. His record against the rest is poor to mediocre.

And Richards did not succeed against Hadlee or the Pakistani attack, the two best pace attacks of his period either.

 

[Sir Alex]

Just a minor point, but the compilation of bowling lists tends to lend ignorance to the conditions that prevailed at the time. I assume no one would deny that the pitches and conditions during the 80s were far far less favourable to the batsmen and as such, the quality of bowlers during Richards era, while they may not have been as numerous as compared to the Sachin era, would still have made batting just as difficult due to the conditions that batsmen were placed under, rendering any comparison of bowling eras as fairly useless.

Overrated is that presumption in my opinion. There is nothing really to "prove" that the conditions during viv richard's era was "difficult" than Tendulkar era. Anyway the raw stats do not seem to suggest that.

 

[Ikki]

And Richards did not succeed against Hadlee or the Pakistani attack, the two best pace attacks of his period either.

Richards averages 47 in matches involving Hadlee, Imran and Lillee. Game, set and match.

 

[Shri]

Richards averages 47 in matches involving Hadlee, Imran and Lillee. Game, set and match.

This ain't tennis.

 

[Agent TBY]

This ain't tennis.

Rafter > Paes and Bhupati combined.

 

[Sir Alex]

Richards averages 47 in matches involving Hadlee, Imran and Lillee. Game, set and match.

In nz??

 

[Ikki]

In nz??

Way to go, he averaged 19.25 in 4 innings in NZ, but you ignore the fact that he averaged 54 in Pakistan and 49 in Australia. Not only did he average 47 away and at home, his 1st/2nd/3rd/4th innings are all high too. Even against them separately he averages in the 40s which means he didn't belt up on one player and fall to bits against another - he was very good against them all pretty much.

This is rather simple: Richards did better against the best of his time. Not that it's the only consideration, but that you claiming otherwise...you were just wrong. It's very easy mate, you say this:

"I was wrong; Tendulkar isn't easily better than Richards, and is arguable if at all."