Richards vs. Tendulkar -Tests

[Ikki]

Why would you remove S.Africa?

 

[SJS]

I would like to know if you have any statistical basis.

My guess would be close to lara/ponting...so high 50s.

Its ridiculous that there should be a debate on Sachin's strike rate in tests. For 13436 of his 14447 runs (take out your calculators to find out the difference please) the number of balls faced is known. For those runs it is 54.34.

For the finnicky it is 54.388 (in case he scored those 11 runs in two balls and a third to get out) or less

 

[Ikki]

I would like to know if you have any statistical basis.

My guess would be close to lara/ponting...so high 50s.

Cricinfo. When I get home I'll try to find the article. Nevertheless, Viv was much faster than Tendulkar.

 

[Sir Alex]

Their breakup in different countries as follows:

Tendulkar

Country		Tests	Runs	 Avg 	Hundred	Fifties
in Australia  	16	1522	 58.53 	6	5
in England 	13	1302	 62.00 	4	6
in India 	46	3920	 56.00 	12	19
in New Zealand 	11	842	 49.52 	2	5
in Pakistan 	10	483	 40.25 	1	2
in West Indies 	10	620	 47.69 	1	5
[B]Total		106	8689	 54.65 	26	42[/B]

Richards

Country		Tests	Runs	 Avg 	Hundred	Fifties
in Australia  	22	1760	 47.56 	4	11
in England 	24	2057	 64.28 	5	12
in India 	15	954	 45.42 	3	4
in New Zealand 	3	77	 19.25 	0	0
in Pakistan 	9	556	 42.76 	1	4
in West Indies 	48	3136	 49.77 	11	14
[B]Total		121	8540	 50.24 	24	45[/B]

 

[Maximus0723]

Its ridiculous that there should be a debate on Sachin's strike rate in tests. For 13436 of his 14447 runs (take out your calculators to find out the difference please) the number of balls faced is known. For those runs it is 54.34.

For the finnicky it is 54.388 (in case he scored those 11 runs in two balls and a third to get out) or less

How did you get those numbers

 

[Sir Alex]

Why would you remove S.Africa?

Because Sir Viv never played against them. So we never know how difficult (or easy) they'd been for him.

 

[Sir Alex]

Its ridiculous that there should be a debate on Sachin's strike rate in tests. For 13436 of his 14447 runs (take out your calculators to find out the difference please) the number of balls faced is known. For those runs it is 54.34.

For the finnicky it is 54.388 (in case he scored those 11 runs in two balls and a third to get out) or less

Yes that is right. Sachin's SR is around 55.

 

[Ikki]

Because Sir Viv never played against them. So we never know how difficult (or easy) they'd been for him.

So? He never played against the Australia Sachin did either. The point of removing the minnows is because we can to a fair degree assume that he would have belted the living daylight out of B/Z. The countries themselves as countries mean little. It's the quality - or lack of it - that we care about.

 

[Maximus0723]

Sachin recently scored a key century when everything else failed against BZ.

I like the idea of giving them 2/3 of the weight.

 

[SJS]

I did not vote here and voted in the other poll between the two (odi's) only because when I opened it there was a dead lock and I am so full of SRT at the current time that I felt it my patriotic duty to vote for him.

It is impossible to use just stats to compare most great players. It is even more dificult when they play for different teams and still harder when they play in different eras.

Then there is one additional factor. Players like Richards and (to take an example from a completely different era) Trumper refuse to be constrained within the confines of statistics. What Richards did on the wicket was not just compile runs, he destroyed attacks. He demolished bowlers and their reputations. He demoralised bowlers, captains and fielding sides.

He was a much much classier version of Virender Sehwag at the crease and he played strokes which if seen in slow motion could be put in cricket manuals.

I am a great fan of Tendulkar. That goes without saying. But after Sobers, Vv Richards is the most impressive batsman I have seen in half a century of watching the game.

If one has to pin prick, we can say that Viv did not have to face the West Indian battery which contained more than half of the best fast bowlers of the world of his time.

If one has to find an area where Sachin looks more impressive over all, it is his handling of world class spinners.

But on the whole comparison is meaningless.

Sachin has attributes of longevity which Richards doesn't but then players who bat with the attitude of a Richards rarely go on for as long as those who revel in staying at the crease and keeping on scoring runs (not referring here to the Boycotts but the Tendulkar's and Bradmans and Laras)

Sehwag is already talking of not playing beyond a hundred Test matches.

For those who did not see Richards bat I can only say, I wish you had. Get hold of the many DVD's available and do so and you will be rewarded beyond your wildest imaginations.

On the other hand, count yourself lucky that you were able to watch another master like Tendulkar, live and for two decades. Thats as great a blessing as well.

Stop bickering in any case. We do great injustice to two of the greatest players of all time when in order to win an argument we reduce their greatness to points, strike rates, averages and decimal places.

 

[SJS]

How did you get those numbers

Here.
HowSTAT! Player Progressive Summary

 

[Sir Alex]

So? He never played against the Australia Sachin did either. The point of removing the minnows is because we can to a fair degree assume that he would have belted the living daylight out of B/Z. The countries themselves as countries mean little. It's the quality - or lack of it - that we care about.

BS.

Including South Africa's record in the analysis would mean Viv would have averaged 50 against them. This has absolutely no base whatsoever.

 

[Ikki]

Just as long as we remove runs against other opponents when others scored 100s.

 

[Maximus0723]

Clearly SJS has hard time grasping mentality of teenager and young adults.



Good points sir.

 

[Ikki]

BS.

Including South Africa's record in the analysis would mean Viv would have averaged 50 against them. This has absolutely no base whatsoever.

Non sense. It wouldn't affect his record because he didn't play them. It only affects Sachin's, and does so negatively...hence you removing them. It's ok Precam, you hid yourself well earlier voting Ponting but it's clear you are a Sachin fanboy.

 

[Sir Alex]

Non sense. It wouldn't affect his record because he didn't play them. It only affects Sachin's, and does so negatively...hence you removing them. It's ok Precam, you hid yourself well earlier voting Ponting but it's clear you are a Sachin fanboy.

And he averages 136 vs Bangladesh, 72 vs Zimbabwe and 57 vs Sri Lanka which also I removed. Some bias Get a grip son.

 

[Maximus0723]

Non sense. It wouldn't affect his record because he didn't play them. It only affects Sachin's, and does so negatively...hence you removing them. It's ok Precam, you hid yourself well earlier voting Ponting but it's clear you are a Sachin fanboy.

lol this is funny.

Would be nice if you post the link.

 

[Ikki]

And he averages 136 vs Bangladesh, 72 vs Zimbabwe and 57 vs Sri Lanka which also I removed. Some bias Get a grip son.

Removing them is a no brainer; it's obvious people could call you on it. Removing S.Africa, however, takes some ingenuity. Good one.

Edit/add...while Sri Lanka were clearly weak during the earlier parts of the 90s, there is no need to remove them for when they were competitive.

 

[Sir Alex]

Removing them is a no brainer; it's obvious people could call you on it. Removing S.Africa, however, takes some ingenuity. Good one.

Edit/add...while Sri Lanka were clearly weak during the earlier parts of the 90s, there is no need to remove them for when they were competitive.

Removing Sri Lanka is a no brainer? You are amusing Ikki. Also Zimbawe that Tendulkar played was not a minnow either.

edit/add Tendulkar made most of his runs when they were competitive. Still it makes no sense to compare oranges to apples.

 

[Ikki]

lol this is funny.

Would be nice if you post the link.

To?