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Rawalpindi Express derailed

Slow Love™

International Captain
SJS said:
You ask, why can't he be? correct ? Why not indeed, but then again why cant he be wrong ? ?
Yes, that's why I said "Which is not to say that he can't be wrong, but why the automatic assumption that if he disagrees, he must be?"

I don't really have a problem with us disagreeing on this issue - the main thing I think that I was responding to most was the way you dismissed the other point of view so readily.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Slow Love™ said:
Bit of a straw man there, SJS, 'cause I never said that. I just don't agree that it's necessarily the case that he NEEDS to shorten his runup.
He needs to do anything that he can to prevent his breaking down and on the field it is his bowling which means his run up and his bowling action. This is just what I said in my first post here today.

Incidentaly, All those I have quoted and can quote more if anyone thinks it helps are fast bowlers over time. Tyson, Lillee, Imran, snow, Trueman, Bailey etc.

Bowling greats over five and a half decades. Surely their word carries enough weight not to be dismissed by a bowler who , you agree I see, has a problem. All I am saying is, he needs to try it out, in the nets, under the supervision of his coach sincerely and with full dedication and see if it works for him. For other than this he doesnt seem to have an idea as to what he is going to do. Just talking of "I nned to work on my fitness" or "which fast bowler does not have a fitness problem" is not going to help.

You know something. There is a terrific book by Rajan Bala called, The Covers Are Off'. It is a fantastic insight into the politics of Indian cricket.

In one place Nawab Pataudi Jr talks of Durrani and says something similar to (my words), "He is a very fine cricketer, a great all rounder. Bu he is not Garfield Sobers. He needs to realise that. He is very disappointed that he is not fulfilling his potential, I can understand that since his potential is enormous. But the way to do that is not to play up his tempramental nature and hide himself ehind his temprament. He needs to put in that extra effort that even genius needs to put in. He isnt willing to do that and puts on show his temprament as some kind of a positive"

I immediately thought of Shoaib.

Shoaib has a serious problem and if it is not sorted out , he may not last very long and that will be a massive tragedy and he will have himself to blame.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Slow Love™ said:
I don't really have a problem with us disagreeing on this issue - the main thing I think that I was responding to most was the way you dismissed the other point of view so readily.
I did that because when I first brought up this subject, I quoted some cricket writer and a forum member jumped at it disputing the credibility of the source to comment on fast bowling. So I went about looking at fast bowlers words on the subject. And now since it was Imran, a modern great, Shoaib's compatriot and since he was commenting directly on Shoaib, I rubbed it in :D
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
wahindiawah said:
Akhtar can learn something from Irfan Pathan, and the thing he can learn is Irfan's good positive attitude, thats what Akhtar lacks. All this talk about long run up is old and useless as if the bowler himself is not comfortable with a shorter run up then its no point to reduce the run up.
Pathan, incidentally, could learn how to bowl well in Test-cricket.
A positive attitude is all well and good, but you need the ability first - and as of yet, Pathan hasn't got that.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
BTW, one ex fast bowler who agrees with Shoaibs run up is former Pakistani bowler Sarfaraz Nawaz who claims to have designed Shoaib's run up.
 

Beleg

International Regular
Sarfraz talks out of his butt, most of the time. [anyone who has heard his ideas on talk-forums and cricket commentary can, I am sure, attest to that]
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Beleg said:
Sarfraz talks out of his butt, most of the time. [anyone who has heard his ideas on talk-forums and cricket commentary can, I am sure, attest to that]
Yes he does :)
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
SJS said:
BTW, one ex fast bowler who agrees with Shoaibs run up is former Pakistani bowler Sarfaraz Nawaz who claims to have designed Shoaib's run up.
Yeah, I read about that earlier tonight. Apparently Imran insisted Akhtar shorten his runup back around '98 at a coaching camp Sarfraz was running, and Shoaib had a bit of a go at it but they (Shoaib and Sarfraz) weren't satisfied with the results. There's been something of a tussle on the issue between Sarfraz and Imran ever since, by the looks of things.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Slow Love™ said:
Yeah, I read about that earlier tonight. Apparently Imran insisted Akhtar shorten his runup back around '98 at a coaching camp Sarfraz was running, and Shoaib had a bit of a go at it but they (Shoaib and Sarfraz) weren't satisfied with the results. There's been something of a tussle on the issue between Sarfraz and Imran ever since, by the looks of things.
Thats interesting.
Imran and Sarfaraz never did get along from the time Imran ecame the skipper and dropped Sarfaraz.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
nightprowler10 said:
I say, leave the guy alone, and stop using him as a scapegoat for Pakistan's past failures, instead appreciate his efforts. Don't deny him the credit he's deserved for his efforts to win games for Pakistan. He's no Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, but he gives it his very best.
Perhaps if he didn't make comments such as "having to carry the whole attack" he'd get more slack.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SJS said:
Thats interesting.
Imran and Sarfaraz never did get along from the time Imran ecame the skipper and dropped Sarfaraz.
How ungreatful of him.
Fancy dropping the man who taught you how to bowl reverse-swing.
Nah, Pakistani cricket will always be rife with that sort of back-stabbing and perceived back-stabbing.
If only every team could be run the Duncan Fletcher way instead of the Ray Illingworth-Brian Bolus way (you need to have read Opening Up to fully comprehend this).
 

Duncan

U19 Debutant
I do think Shoaib is being used as a scapegoat but I also think he does bowl a whole lot of rubbish as well. If he fails against India, I would suggest for the PCB to drop him for awhile so he can learn how to bowl. He is just too arrogant, he acts like he is carrying the whole team like someone already mentioned.
 

dudeurfriend

School Boy/Girl Captain
Yes people all of u are right.he should not be arrogant and he should learn to be a bit more disciplined.He should be more responsible and try to make people talk about his bowling rather than his ill-mannered behaviours on and off the field.......
 

Arrow

U19 Vice-Captain
How long is lees run up? Hes as fast as shoaib and can maintain his speed over longer spells.
 

wahindiawah

Banned
marc71178 said:
For once I thought you were being unbiased, but then you decided he needed help from Pathan (!)
I was unbaised, i gave the example of Pathan as he just came into my mind, maybe i should had mentioned Harmison, that would have made everyone happy!
 

wahindiawah

Banned
-dude- said:
Yeah, I thought too....Pathan's record so far without help from Bangladesh?

:blink: :blink:
attitude, attitude, ATTITUDE.I was simply talking about Pathan's positive attitude.

I never said that Akhtar isn't a good bowler, i was actually supporting Akhtar and i think that ppl shouldn't criticize Akhtar on his long run-up.If Akhtar can be blamed on anything then its got to be his attitude.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
wahindiawah said:
I was unbaised, i gave the example of Pathan as he just came into my mind, maybe i should had mentioned Harmison, that would have made everyone happy!
The problem is if you mention an Indian bowler , past or present, (for help) it will be found offensive for obvious reasons. If it is an Australian, it wil be seen as not palatable on account of the current/ongoing series. If it is a former Pakistani great, then it has to do with the internal power politics of Pakistani cricket !!

Basically, you cant criticise a nation's icon be it Warne, Murali, Tendulkar or Shoaib !!
 

wahindiawah

Banned
SJS said:
It pains me to see him compete with the speed gun when he has so much to give to the game by concentrating on competeing with the batsman.
I don't think that is the case.He was obsessed with breaking the 100 mph record in the past but after breaking it he seems to have no interest atall to even bowl near 160 KPH.
 

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