Ponting Vs Gavaskar

[kyear2]

Would consider Chappell over Gavaskar

Someone should do a poll.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Think was yesterday I was asked for a top 10, and I suggested that behind my top 8, Chappell and yes, Barry (based on talent) was being considered for the next two.

The only argument that could be used against Chappell could be longevity, but that's neither here nor there for me beyond a certain point.
I would say equal, if I were to choose one as a batsman, the only differentiator would be Sunny is the rarer great opener, as cricketers, Chappell.

Same tier for me, and would imagine most on the forum.

Yeah, I read that and felt the same way as I as said, don't vibe with Barry. You are bit too flicker minded on certain things not Carribean.

Chappell really only has longevity issues? I suggest you look a little deeper into his record. Averages barely 40 in England his main opponents and had one WI tour in 73 against a weak attack. Piled up his away average by scoring against weak NZ, Pak (one 200 in a flat bed) and SL (lol) attacks.

 

[ma1978]

No they aren't. Stop nostalgia jerking.

You’re the one with a weird hard on for Gavaskar.

If you are trying to parse between Gavaskar, Sanga, Kohli, Ponting as being in different tiers, that’s false pedantry. Any argument only comes down to personal aesthetics

 

[capt_Luffy]

Someone should do a poll.

Greg Chappell vs Sunil Gavaskar

This is one I find harder than almost any other comparison. On the one hand, Gavaskar has the bigger volume of Test runs and a slightly more diverse distribution of runs, whilst also being an opener for a country that really struggled in Test Cricket on the whole before his arrival which...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[capt_Luffy]

You’re the one with a weird hard on for Gavaskar.

If you are trying to parse between Gavaskar, Sanga, Kohli, Ponting as being in different tiers, that’s false pedantry. Any argument only comes down to personal aesthetics

Again, you rate Dravid higher than Sunny, so don't think we have much common ground. But I really struggle to still understand the logic behind the difference in Gavaskar and Kohli being "aesthetics".

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Disagree on all 3 counts. Let's go one by one.

India had Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna-Venkat at home. The best spinning attack by a gazillion at that time, arguably ever. Bedi, Chandra and especially Prasanna did really well in their Aussie tour. It was a very far thing from easy runs in India, especially at middle order. Pakistan had Imran, who had well developed his reverse swing and was fuming, alongside excellent home bowlers in Qadir and Nawaz.

Viv is held above by peer ratings in general. Way or not, or if even at all, depends on who you ask. And again, peer ratings is a highly flawed method of judgement, I only use them for players who are old enough to not be properly evaluated by stats.

Chappell is close, not very close. There is a small but well present gulf between these two. On Barry, love him but think ranking him this high is makes less sense than ranking Procter the 2nd Greatest cricketer. Yes, I have seen your reasons and yes I think most are trash, you follow them because you want to believe in Barry and have an attacking high tier opener.

The Indian Quartet was brilliant away from home as well. Viv’s performance against them in 75-76 tour in WI, where Bedi and Chandra took many wickets and against Qadir and Qasim in 1980 Pak, coupled with other performances is why i don’t take the notion of Viv being weak against spin seriously. He was not in the Lloyd, Gavaskar, Lara league obv, but a pretty good player of spin nonetheless. And Viv and Gavaskar noticeably above Chappell agreed

 

[capt_Luffy]

The Indian Quartet was brilliant away from home as well. Viv’s performance against them in 75-76 tour in WI, where Bedi and Chandra took many wickets and against Qadir and Qasim in 1980 Pak, coupled with other performances is why i don’t take the notion of Viv being weak against spin seriously. He was not in the Lloyd, Gavaskar, Lara league obv, but a pretty good player of spin nonetheless.

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about Viv. We have talked about the 76 India series before and you had pretty much convinced me on that. Kyear said that SC wasn't a big challenge in Chappell's era, which I replied just wasn't true as India still had the quartet and Pakistan Imran and to an extent Qadir and Nawaz. Most importantly, a very different challenge than what he has faced in both, high quality barrage of spin in their backyard and encounter with reverse swing in slow wicket.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Btw between Gavaskar and Sehwag who is a better player of spin? I was watching highlights of the 96 against Pak, and it was a sublime knock on an atrocious pitch

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, I read that and felt the same way as I as said, don't vibe with Barry. You are bit too flicker minded on certain things not Carribean.

Chappell really only has longevity issues? I suggest you look a little deeper into his record. Averages barely 40 in England his main opponents and had one WI tour in 73 against a weak attack. Piled up his away average by scoring against weak NZ, Pak (one 200 in a flat bed) and SL (lol) attacks.

Barry exceeded in every opportunity he got, and in the WSC and ROW matches he was just brilliant. Honestly so was Chappell.

Sunny's record wasn't bullet proof either, and also piled on runs vs weakened attacks as well.

I will admit that Sunny.isnt my favorite player, the same way Ponting is for you. But these were all fabulous players, all these guys just second tier for me. Gavaskar, Chappell, Ponting etc.

Barry floating in-between the two tiers with an asterisk.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Btw between Gavaskar and Sehwag who is a better player of spin? I was watching highlights of the 96 against Pak, and it was a sublime knock on an atrocious pitch

Tough to say really. Probably Sehwag slightly ahead as he was more destructive and more importantly, played the two best spinners of all time. Can't think of any comparable spinners Gavaskar faced, in what was a pretty bad era for spinners (though Gavaskar would had probably preferred more high quality spinners than pacers).

 

[capt_Luffy]

Barry exceeded in every opportunity he got, and in the WSC and ROW matches he was just brilliant. Honestly so was Chappell.

Sunny's record wasn't bullet proof either, and also piled on runs vs weakened attacks as well.

I will admit that Sunny.isnt my favorite player, the same way Ponting is for you. But these were all fabulous players, all these guys just second tier for me. Gavaskar, Chappell, Ponting etc.

Barry floating in-between the two tiers with an asterisk.

If by every opportunity you basically mean less than 15 matches, in mostly Australia, then yes Barry exceeded. Can't make much out of it. Don't really see a point in making much out of it, but well.

Sunny piled runs in much more carried conditions against much more varied attacks. Uncovered English pitches against Underwood and swinging ones vs Willis and Botham, bouncy Australian ones vs Peak Thomson, against Pakistan with Imran in slow pitches and even some wild turners, against the WI quartet in India. Chappell for the most part, did most of his good works at home. Barely averages 40 in England, the only strong country he toured regularly. Literally every single player bar Bradman and to an extend Hobbs and Tendulkar have holes.

Don't see a point talking about the rest. You get my sentiments already, don't think it's close with either of the Australians.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Barry exceeded in every opportunity he got, and in the WSC and ROW matches he was just brilliant. Honestly so was Chappell.

Sunny's record wasn't bullet proof either, and also piled on runs vs weakened attacks as well.

I will admit that Sunny.isnt my favorite player, the same way Ponting is for you. But these were all fabulous players, all these guys just second tier for me. Gavaskar, Chappell, Ponting etc.

Barry floating in-between the two tiers with an asterisk.

Tier 1 ATG - Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv, Lara

Tier 2 ATG - Gavaskar, Chappell, Smith, Kallis, Ponting, Sangakkara, Border, Waugh, Dravid, Kohli, De Villiers

Most won’t agree with De Villiers but I think he was as good as Sachin/Viv/Lara at his best

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tier 1 ATG - Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv, Lara, Barry Richards

Tier 2 ATG - Gavaskar, Chappell, Smith, Kallis, Ponting, Sangakkara, Border, Waugh, Dravid, Kohli, De Villiers

Most won’t agree with De Villiers but I think he was as good as Sachin/Viv/Lara at his best

Did you put Barry in tier 1 or was it supposed to be Viv??

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about Viv. We have talked about the 76 India series before and you had pretty much convinced me on that. Kyear said that SC wasn't a big challenge in Chappell's era, which I replied just wasn't true as India still had the quartet and Pakistan Imran and to an extent Qadir and Nawaz. Most importantly, a very different challenge than what he has faced in both, high quality barrage of spin in their backyard and encounter with reverse swing in slow wicket.

Don't think I said that, of I did will change it.

I.also want to phrase this carefully. It wasn't seen as important or critical as it is today, especially not for batsmen. Pakistan with Imran, yeah, but the most important tours at that time was England, the ashes were the be all and end all. West Indies were for a bit, dropped off and picked up again a little later.

Lillee was seen as the GOAT without as much as a positive impression in the WI or the SC. Thigh his battles with Viv did factor into his legacy.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Did you put Barry in tier 1 or was it supposed to be Viv??

Wasn’t serious about that one. The rest I believe though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Don't think I said that, of I did will change it.

I.also want to phrase this carefully. It wasn't seen as important or critical as it is today, especially not for batsmen. Pakistan with Imran, yeah, but the most important tours at that time was England, the ashes were the be all and end all. West Indies were for a bit, dropped off and picked up again a little later.

Lillee was seen as the GOAT without as much as a positive impression in the WI or the SC. Thigh his battles with Viv did factor into his legacy.

Again, I have described why I feel SC would had been a major challenge for Greg, how it was perceived be damned. Not to mention, his away record is really lacking with just a good record in England and one easy series in WI.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

So no Viv in tier one?

No, he’s there

 

[kyear2]

No, he’s there

Yeah, saw after.

 

[kyear2]

Again, I have described why I feel SC would had been a major challenge for Greg, how it was perceived be damned. Not to mention, his away record is really lacking with just a good record in England and one easy series in WI.

Lillee's wasn't as well?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wasn’t serious about that one. The rest I believe though.

Even ignoring everything else, I don't know if I will place Smith and Kohli in the same tier really