Playing selector: Lets pick the best test XI of different eras

[aussie tragic]

I hope that Richard Hadlee makes it in as the 4th bowler because he really deserves it and it would give New Zealand some representation which we might not get if Sutcliffe doesn't get into the next XI.

Okay, your sympathy plea has won me over and I'll now vote Hadlee as the 4th bowler

 

[Perm]

Good job, not sure about what happened in the Opening Bowler poll but from what I remember Hadlee was only just piped so I hope he does get in.

 

[aussie tragic]

Good job, not sure about what happened in the Opening Bowler poll but from what I remember Hadlee was only just piped so I hope he does get in.

Just to make it worse, "Aussie" voted for Hadlee in the posts, but never bothered to tick the Poll box and then Hadlee lost to Lillee by just one vote

 

[Perm]

Ohwell, the injustce will be undone hopefully.

 

[oz_fan]

Finally, we may need to adjust the 20 test criteria down as while 20 tests can be completed in less than 2-years now, it probably took 5-6 years back then (I know Bradman only played 52 tests in 15 years of playing).

I think you should adjust the amount of tests to 15, not just because Bradman might miss out but for all the cricketers of that era due to the limited amount of tests.

Good job, not sure about what happened in the Opening Bowler poll but from what I remember Hadlee was only just piped so I hope he does get in.

I'll definately be voting for Hadlee for the final bowling spot. He deserves to be in one of the all-time teams.

 

[aussie tragic]

I'll definately be voting for Hadlee for the final bowling spot. He deserves to be in one of the all-time teams.

Well Perm, your little voting rally seems to be working as you now have 3 votes for Hadlee sown up

 

[Perm]

Sweet. Good to see Paddles getting some love.

 

[Fusion]

Just to make it worse, "Aussie" voted for Hadlee in the posts, but never bothered to tick the Poll box and then Hadlee lost to Lillee by just one vote

He's also voted for Miandad at #6, but has not ticked the poll box there as well. That poll is also close, so I hope Miandad doesn't miss out by a vote!

 

[aussie tragic]

I hope he does as I want Beefy to win

 

[aussie tragic]

To be fair, the player in question's record doesn't warrant selection in all honesty.

Also, I heard he was a bit suspect to short pitched bowling directed at the body, so the 1966-85 attack of Marshall, Lillee & Hadlee/Garner would clean him up for sure, plus in England during this period his average was a massive 30 runs below his career average so Deadly should take care of him if the test was in England.

As for the 1986-05 attack, as he couldn't score a run in the subcontinent, the test could be played in India where Murali and Warne should have his measure after Ambrose, McGrath and Imran soften him up with some short pitched stuff

 

[bagapath]

Baga, I'm looking forward to see all the work that you've done on the 1946-65 team as there are some real legends in this period.

We could also tweak the poll process so that they're only 4-days as most votes seem to be in by 3-days, except yours of course I think we can also run the polls in the following order to ensure it's completed in the shortest time:

# 3 & Opening batsmen
# 4 & WK
# 5 & Opening Bowler
# 6 & Spinner
Final Bowler

Finally, we may need to adjust the 20 test criteria down as while 20 tests can be completed in less than 2-years now, it probably took 5-6 years back then (I know Bradman only played 52 tests in 15 years of playing)

btw, I'm happy for you to run the polls if you like, just let me know.

not at all aussie tragic. you're doing a terrific job. would love to see you continue.

and as you've said i am not coming regularly to the forum coz my working hours have become weird these days. I am a film maker - so i am either totally jobless or completely occupied round the clock. i am entering the second phase in a few weeks' time. so i dont know if i will be able to do justice.

will write down coherantly what changes i had though of for the next team. that includes the minimum criteria you're talking about.

 

[bagapath]

Sweet. Good to see Paddles getting some love.

ha ha. dont worry he will be a shoo-in. hopefully he will make it to the post war XI as well.

 

[aussie tragic]

I am a film maker - so i am either totally jobless or completely occupied round the clock.

Let me know if you're a Bollywood film maker as then I'll definitely take you up on your offer for beer so that I might meet some starlets

 

[bagapath]

Let me know if you're a Bollywood film maker as then I'll definitely take you up on your offer for beer so that I might meet some starlets

LOL. Yeah sure. Wont be a problem at all.

Here is my take on the 1946 - 1965 team.

1) Instead of keeping a minimum requirement on the number of test matches I suggest the following:

* Batsmen: 1000 runs. Batting ave > 40
* Bowlers: 100 Wickets. Spinners Ave < 35. Fast Bowlers Ave < 30.
* WK: 100 Dismissals at > 2 dismissals/test. Give weightage to their batting if you want. But do it at the poll. Not at the selection stage.
* All Rounders: 100 wickets at Bowling Ave < 35. 1000 Runs at Batting Ave > 20.

2) Since the all-rounder is, in all probability, a fast bowler (unless mankad fans outnumber miller fans), we can consider choosing two spinners and two fast bowlers to go with him.

3) We can leave Don Bradman out of the polls for following reasons:

a) It is pointless conducting any poll when he is one of the nominees. He will be the runaway winner. There wont be any fun.
b) Though his exploits were spectacular in the 14 tests he played after the world war and he increased his career average from the pre-world war times, he played only for two years in the time frame we are dealing with which is quite small in the overall context of 20 years of test cricket. Though he meets the new minmum criteria we are setting, it is simply because he was too good and not because he played enough in this era. Some of the players in the following list have also played as few matches as Don. We will filter them out before the polls.

c) If someone wants to select a 1919 - 1939 team (between world wars) Don is certain to make it and thus force us to re work on this team, which would be quite annoying.

So, let us please not consider him for this team.

4) I am completely happy with the poll order aussie tragic has suggested and with the suggestion to keep polls down to four days.

5) Here is a possible pool of players. It is probably not complete. And I know it is not accurate. I have just listed all those who debuted after 1937 (and played enough after the war) and before 1963. I have given their overall career figures but not those specific to this era. So some of them may not make the final cut. And, I

havent separated them into specialist positions like openers, fast bowlers etc. But still this is a good starting point. (And it took some time )

BATSMEN:

AUSTRALIA:
SG Barnes 13 19 2 1072 234- 63.05 3 5
AL Hassett 43 69 3 3073 198* 46.56 10 11
AR Morris 46 79 3 3533 206- 46.48 12 12
RN Harvey 79 137 10 6149 205- 48.41 21 24
RB Simpson 62 111 7 4869 311- 46.81 10 27
NC O'Neill 42 69 8 2779 181- 45.55 6 15
WM Lawry 67 123 12 5234 210- 47.15 13 27

ENGLAND:
L Hutton 79 138 15 6971 364- 56.67 19 33
C Washbrook 37 66 6 2569 195- 42.81 6 12
DCS Compton 78 131 15 5807 278- 50.06 17 28
WJ Edrich 39 63 2 2440 219- 40.00 6 13
PBH May 66 106 9 4537 285* 46.77 13 22
TW Graveney 79 123 13 4882 258- 44.38 11 20
MC Cowdrey 114 188 15 7624 182- 44.06 22 38
KF Barrington 82 131 15 6806 256- 58.67 20 35
ER Dexter 62 102 8 4502 205- 47.89 9 27
JH Edrich 77 127 9 5138 310* 43.54 12 24

INDIA:
VS Hazare 30 52 6 2192 164* 47.65 7 9
PR Umrigar 59 94 8 3631 223- 42.22 12 14

NEW ZEALAND:
B Sutcliffe 42 76 8 2727 230* 40.1 5 15

PAKISTAN:
Hanif Mohammad 55 97 8 3915 337- 43.98 12 15
Saeed Ahmed 41 78 4 2991 172- 40.41 5 16

SOUTH AFRICA:
DJ McGlew 34 64 6 2440 255* 42.06 7 10
KC Bland 21 39 5 1669 144* 49.08 3 9
EJ Barlow 30 57 2 2516 201- 45.74 6 15
RG Pollock 23 41 4 2256 274- 60.97 7 11

WEST INDIES
JB Stollmeyer 32 56 5 2159 160- 42.33 4 12
ED Weekes 48 81 5 4455 207- 58.61 15 19
CL Walcott 44 74 7 3798 220- 56.68 15 14
FMM Worrell 51 87 9 3860 261- 49.48 9 22
GStA Sobers 93 160 21 8032 365* 57.78 26 30
RB Kanhai 79 137 6 6227 256- 47.53 15 28
CC Hunte 44 78 6 3245 260- 45.06 8 13
BF Butcher 44 78 6 3104 209* 43.11 7 16
SM Nurse 29 54 1 2523 258- 47.6 6 10

BOWLERS:

AUSTRALIA:
AK Davidson 44 82 186 7/93 20.53 62.29 14 2
AN Connolly 29 55 102 6/47 29.22 76.64 4 0
GD McKenzie 60 113 246 8/71 29.78 71.87 16 3
KR Miller 55 95 170 7/60 22.97 61.53 7 1
R Benaud 63 116 248 7/72 27.03 77.04 16 1
RR Lindwall 61 113 228 7/38 23.03 59.86 12 0
WA Johnston 40 75 160 6/44 23.91 69.05 7 0

ENGLAND:
AV Bedser 51 92 236 7/44 24.89 67.44 15 5
DA Allen 39 65 122 5/30 30.97 92.59 4 0
FS Trueman 67 127 307 8/31 21.57 49.43 17 3
GAR Lock 49 88 174 7/35 25.58 75.55 9 3
JB Statham 70 129 252 7/39 24.84 63.71 9 1
JC Laker 46 86 193 10/53 21.24 62.31 9 3
JH Wardle 28 52 102 7/36 20.39 64.67 5 1

INDIA:
EAS Prasanna 49 86 189 8/76 30.38 75.94 10 2
MH Mankad 44 70 162 8/52 32.32 90.65 8 2
SP Gupte 36 61 149 9/102 29.55 75.73 12 1

NEW ZEALAND:
RC Motz 32 55 100 6/63 31.48 70.34 5 0

PAKISTAN:
Fazal Mahmood 34 53 139 7/42 24.7 70.74 13 4

SOUTH AFRICA:
HJ Tayfield 37 61 170 9/113 25.91 79.81 14 2
NAT Adcock 26 46 104 6/43 21.1 61.45 5 0
PM Pollock 28 52 116 6/38 24.18 56.22 9 1
TL Goddard 41 75 123 6/53 26.22 95.41 5 0

WEST INDIES
AL Valentine 36 63 139 8/104 30.32 93.18 8 2
LR Gibbs 79 148 309 8/38 29.09 87.75 18 2
S Ramadhin 43 76 158 7/49 28.98 88.22 10 1
WW Hall 48 92 192 7/69 26.38 54.27 9 1

ALL ROUNDERS:

AUSTRALIA:
KR Miller 55 2958 147- 36.97 7 170 7/60 22.97 7
RR Lindwall 61 1502 118- 21.15 2 228 7/38 23.03 12
R Benaud 63 2201 122- 24.45 3 248 7/72 27.03 16
AK Davidson 44 1328 80- 24.59 0 186 7/93 20.53 14

ENGLAND:
TE Bailey 61 2290 134* 29.74 1 132 7/34 29.21 5
FJ Titmus 53 1449 84* 22.29 0 153 7/79 32.22 7
R Illingworth 61 1836 113- 23.24 2 122 6/29 31.2 3

INDIA:
MH Mankad 44 2109 231- 31.47 5 162 8/52 32.32 8

SOUTH AFRICA:
TL Goddard 41 2516 112- 34.46 1 123 6/53 26.22 5

WEST INDIES
GStA Sobers 93 8032 365* 57.78 26 235 6/73 34.03 6

WICKET KEEPERS:

AUSTRALIA:
ATW Grout 51 163 24 187

ENGLAND:
TG Evans 91 173 46 219
JM Parks 43 101 11 112

SOUTH AFRICA:
JHB Waite 48 121 16 137

I sincerely hope this reduces the work load on aussie tragic. We can start fine tuning this list after selecting the last bowler and the skipper for the present team.

 

[C_C]

Ok, i cant be bothered to keep track of this and vote, so i'd appreciate if someone applied my vote to the nominations as it comes up from the implied positions in the XI i picked below:


Gavaskar
Greenidge
Viv
Tendulkar
Lara
Gillchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne(when not a greentop) or Ambrose (when a greentop)
Murali

 

[aussie tragic]

Here is my take on the 1946 - 1965 team.

....We can leave Don Bradman out of the polls for following reasons:

a) It is pointless conducting any poll when he is one of the nominees. He will be the runaway winner. There wont be any fun.
b) Though his exploits were spectacular in the 14 tests he played after the world war and he increased his career average from the pre-world war times, he played only for two years in the time frame we are dealing with which is quite small in the overall context of 20 years of test cricket. Though he meets the new minmum criteria we are setting, it is simply because he was too good and not because he played enough in this era. Some of the players in the following list have also played as few matches as Don. We will filter them out before the polls.

c) If someone wants to select a 1919 - 1939 team (between world wars) Don is certain to make it and thus force us to re work on this team, which would be quite annoying.

So, let us please not consider him for this team.

Sorry, don't agree with leaving the Don out.

I thought the goal was to pick 1946-65, 1966-85 and 1986-05 World XI's and then from that lot,choose a post war XI. After all that, I don't know how many people would be interested in a pre-war XI, never mind a 1919-39 XI.

So if he meets the criteria, I say let him in and I agree there's no need for a poll, we should just put him straight in at # 3

 

[Matt79]

I think we should exclude Don from the 46-65 team and press on with the twenty year interval teams - next being 26-45, but perhaps making the last team from "Dawn of Cricket" to 25.

 

[bagapath]

I think we should exclude Don from the 46-65 team and press on with the twenty year interval teams - next being 26-45, but perhaps making the last team from "Dawn of Cricket" to 25.

there was no test cricket between 1939 and 1945 due to WW II. so the next 20 year period will be 1919 to 1939. the one befoe that will be 1894 to 1914 since there was no cricket, again, during WW I.

aussie tragic. if we stick to our 20 test criteria then don wont be included in the pool. you still have all the great players of the era up for selection. if deliberately leaving him out bothers you we can go back to the earlier cut off. also, by reducing the requirement we haven't unearthed any potential team member we would have forgotten otherwise.

 

[bagapath]

I thought the goal was to pick 1946-65, 1966-85 and 1986-05 World XI's and then from that lot,choose a post war XI. After all that, I don't know how many people would be interested in a pre-war XI, never mind a 1919-39 XI.

fair enough.

but even for the next team wee are choosing, I would rather see who else would we choose as no.3 rather than hearing the obvious answer. anyways, since we both differer on this let us wait to hear from others as well.

 

[aussie tragic]

fair enough.

but even for the next team wee are choosing, I would rather see who else would we choose as no.3 rather than hearing the obvious answer. anyways, since we both differer on this let us wait to hear from others as well.

btw, I think I was talking about myself on not doing the pre-war XI as it does take a lot of time to dig up the players and get all the stats (as you found out above). Once we get into it, I might change my mind though

On Bradman, how about I run all the stats and then come up with a reasonable criteria that people can discuss, but please bare in mind that a current player can play 20 tests in 2-years, while 10 might be lucky during 1946-65. Therefore I think 12 tests, or 1000 runs or 50 wkts might be a good start.