Playing selector: Lets pick the best test XI of different eras

[aussie tragic]

Okay the selectors have spoken and the 1966-85 remaining polls will be as follows:

# 4: All remaining batsmen (ave > 40) + 3 runner-ups from # 3

# 5: Allrounders (bat ave > 40) + 3 runner-up batsmen from # 4

# 6: Allrounders (bat ave > 30) + 3 runner-up batsmen from # 5

Spinner: SR will be disregarded and criteria now just 20 tests and Ave < 35

Final Bowler: batting at # 7-11 depending on batting ave (from 5 runner-up pace + runner-up spinner + runner-up allrounder)

Thanks for everyones input and now you can share the grief if people complain

 

[bagapath]

Okay the selectors have spoken and the 1966-85 remaining polls will be as follows:

# 4: All remaining batsmen (ave > 40) + 3 runner-ups from # 3

# 5: Allrounders (bat ave > 40) + 3 runner-up batsmen from # 4

# 6: Allrounders (bat ave > 30) + 3 runner-up batsmen from # 5

Spinner: SR will be disregarded and criteria now just 20 tests and Ave < 35

Final Bowler: batting at # 7-11 depending on batting ave (from 5 runner-up pace + runner-up spinner + runner-up allrounder)

Thanks for everyones input and now you can share the grief if people complain

aussie tragic! It was festival time in india and i was jobless for a few days over the weekend. i have tweaked the minimum cut-off for the 1946 to 1965 team a little bit so that it will be, hopefully, correct for the era. it is based on the changes we had to make in these two polls so far. lets get to it in a few weeks' time. this poll is, as i expected, more interesting than the previous one.

 

[aussie tragic]

Well the most interesting Poll of them all has just finished with Lillee just beating Hadlee by 1 vote.

The 1966-85 World Test XI so far:

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Gordon Greenidge
3. Viv Richards
4. Greg Chappell*
5. ---------------------
6. ---------------------
7. Alan Knott
8. Malcom Marshall
9. Dennis Lillee

* # 4 Batsman Poll still running here: http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20332 )

Btw, the 1966-85 World Test 2nd XI so far:

1. Geoff Boycott
2. Glenn Turner
3. David Gower
4. Javed Miandad*
5. ---------------------
6. ---------------------
7. Rod Marsh
8. Imran Khan*
9. Richard Hadlee*

* Some of these players may still make the 1st Team

 

[bagapath]

do you know what was the 1986 - 2005 second XI?

 

[aussie tragic]

do you know what was the 1986 - 2005 second XI?

1. Sehweg
2. Langer
3. Dravid
4. Border
5. S. Waugh
6. Flower
7. Hadlee
8. Marshall
9. Akram
10. Younis
11. MacGill

 

[bagapath]

1. Sehweg
2. Langer
3. Dravid
4. Border
5. S. Waugh
6. Flower
7. Hadlee
8. Marshall
9. Akram
10. Younis
11. MacGill

not bad at all. i assume border would lead this team. only the spinning option looks weak. but that would be true for any team pitted against murali and warne

 

[Perm]

Four great and deadly fast bowlers, one explosive batsman, four top order rocks, a very good spinner and a wicketkeeper averaging 50. What more could you ask for? Also I'm disappointed Hadlee didn't make it in on the first vote, but I think he'll probably end up getting into the team.

 

[aussie tragic]

i have tweaked the minimum cut-off for the 1946 to 1965 team a little bit so that it will be, hopefully, correct for the era. it is based on the changes we had to make in these two polls so far. lets get to it in a few weeks' time. this poll is, as i expected, more interesting than the previous one.

Baga, just to clarify that we haven't changed the selection criteria too much in that we've dropped the spinner SR (and poll shows that we could have kept it at < 85 like first suggested) and we've allowed Batsmen with Bat Ave > 40.0 into the # 5 Poll, without requiring a min 20 Innings (I think this is a good move as in older decades, tests and therefore innings were less so this will allow some good "floaters" to be considered).

As for the # 4 poll with all remaining batsmen being included, all had actually batted at # 4 for > 20 innings except Zareer Abbas who should have only been allowed in the # 5 poll (and that mistake is now corrected as he will be in # 5 as a # 4 runner-up anyway).

In summary, Selection crtiteria for 1966-85 XI is a minimum of 20 tests in period, plus:

# 1 - # 4: Batting Ave > 40.00; Min. 20 Innings in nominated position
# 5: Batting Ave > 40.00 (no min. innings requirement)
# 6: Allrounder with batting Ave > 30.00 and Bowling Ave < 35.00
WK: Batting Ave > 25.00; Dismissal Rate > 2.5
Pace Bowler: Bowling Ave < 30.00; SR < 60.0
Spinner: Bowling Ave < 35.00

Notes:

(a) Runner-ups go into # 4, # 5 and # 6 poll, as well as the Final Bowler Poll.
(b) # 1 to # 4 Batsmen should be placed in the position where they had their most innings (forget batting ave in position)

 

[bagapath]

Baga, just to clarify that we haven't changed the selection criteria too much in that we've dropped the spinner SR (and poll shows that we could have kept it at < 85 like first suggested) and we've allowed Batsmen with Bat Ave > 40.0 into the # 5 Poll, without requiring a min 20 Innings (I think this is a good move as in older decades, tests and therefore innings were less so this will allow some good "floaters" to be considered).

As for the # 4 poll with all remaining batsmen being included, all had actually batted at # 4 for > 20 innings except Zareer Abbas who should have only been allowed in the # 5 poll (and that mistake is now corrected as he will be in # 5 as a # 4 runner-up anyway).

In summary, Selection crtiteria for 1966-85 XI is a minimum of 20 tests in period, plus:

# 1 - # 4: Batting Ave > 40.00; Min. 20 Innings in nominated position
# 5: Batting Ave > 40.00 (no min. innings requirement)
# 6: Allrounder with batting Ave > 30.00 and Bowling Ave < 35.00
WK: Batting Ave > 25.00; Dismissal Rate > 2.5
Pace Bowler: Bowling Ave < 30.00; SR < 60.0
Spinner: Bowling Ave < 35.00

Notes:

(a) Runner-ups go into # 4, # 5 and # 6 poll, as well as the Final Bowler Poll.
(b) # 1 to # 4 Batsmen should be placed in the position where they had their most innings (forget batting ave in position)

yes. agree with you. some minor issues concerning the next team. but we will cross the bridge when it comes!! this poll is going very well so far.

 

[aussie tragic]

Just an update on how the 1966-85 team selection is going against the 1985-2005 XI.

Batting Order

1. Matthew Hayden --------------- Sunil Gavaskar
2. Saeed Anwar -------------------- Gordon Greenidge
3. Ricky Ponting ------------------- Viv Richards
4. Sachin Tendulkar -------------- Greg Chappell
5. Brian Lara
6. Imran Khan
7. Adam Gilchrist ----------------- Alan Knott
8. Shane Warne
9. Curtly Ambrose ---------------- Malcom Marshall
10. Mutthiah Muralitharan ----- Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath -------------- Derek Underwood

Bowling Order

1. Curtley Ambrose ------------- Malcom Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath --------------- Dennis Lillee
3. Imran Khan
4. Shane Warne ----------------- Derek Underwood
5. Mutthiah Muralitharan
6. Sachin Tendulkar ------------- Greg Chappell
7. N/A --------------------------------- Viv Richards

 

[Jono]

1966-1985 have the better batting line-up, mainly due to the openers, but even the middle order is going to look just as good as awesome as the 86-2006 one.

 

[andmark]

Having gone through several lists of all-time XIs and polls to choose greatest knocks, partnerships etc. I propose to start a thread in which all of us can play selectors and choose the best team from the past two decades. It might be just a variation of other discussions we've had. But putting together a team with our various national, cultural backgrounds, knowledge bases and understanding of the game might be interesting.

I do have some ideas on how it can be done. Tell me if it makes sense or if we need to change a few rules to start a selection process.

1) The team should be the best possible XI representing players who have actively played test cricket from the English summer of 1986 to the English summer of 2005 - including both seasons. We will base our selection only on performances in the given time frame.

This gives us 20 years of test cricket to base our opinions on. It is not too long and not too short. Also, it might be the correct era for most of our forum members to have a first hand opinion on.

2) The team will have two specialist openers, three middle order batsmen, one genuine all-rounder, one wicket keepr, two fast bowlers and two spinners. If the all-rounder happens to be a spinner (which is highly unlikely for this era), we can choose three fast bowlers and one specialist spinner.

3) A batsman with bowling skills or a bowler with ability score runs or a player with greater fielding ability can be given extra weightage when we discuss their places. We will also select a captain.

4) Since we have very knowledgable members with good writing skills we will have an open discussion for each slot before starting the poll. The poll conductor can decide whent to start and end the polls. I am not experienced in running polls. If someone with the knowledge can volunteer, it can avoid a lot of confusion.

5) As a strategy we can consider having batsmen of different temperaments, left-right cominations, spinners of different styles etc. But it doesnt have to be a rule. We will decide on a case by case basis on what suits the team we are choosing.

6) We will deal with the whole process in a phased manner. The six stages will be: Openers, middle-order, all-rounder, keeper, fast bowlers and spinners.

I will try to name all the possible names who have played in the given time frame. We can add delete before setlling down on the final list.

1. Openers:

Australia: Boon, Taylor, Slater, Hayden, Langer
England: Gooch, Atherton, Vaughan, Trescothick, Strauss
India: Gavaskar, Navjot Sidhu, Sehwag
Pakistan: Anwar, Sohail
New Zealand: Wright, Fleming
South Africa: Gary Kirsten, Gibbs, Smith
Sri Lanka: Jayasuriya, Attapattu
West Indies: Haynes, Greenidge, Gayle

2. Middle Order:

Australia: Mark Waugh, Seve Waugh, Allan Border, Ricky Ponting, Damien Martyn, Adam Gilchrist, Dean Jones
England: Gower, Thorpe
India: Amarnath, Vengsarkar, Azharuddin, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly
Pakistan: Miandad, Salim Malik, Inzamam, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan
New Zealand: Martin Crowe
South Africa: Kallis, Cullinan
Sri Lanka: De Silva, Jayawardane, Sangakkara
Zimbabwe: Andy Flower
West Indies: Richards, Lara, Chanderpaul

3. All Rounders: Imran, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Cairns, Pollock, Kallis, Flintoff, Akram.

4. Wicket Keepers: Healy, Gilchrist, Stewart, Russell, Mongia, Moin Khan, Latif, Ian Smith, Parore, Boucher,

Sangakkara, Dujon, Jaobs, Andy Flower,

5. Fast Bowlers:

Australia: McDermott, Hughes, McGrath, Gillespie, Lee
England: Botham, Gough, Caddick, Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff
India: Kapil Dev, Srinath
Pakistan: Imran, Akram, Waqar, Akhthar
New Zealand: Hadlee, Cairns, Bond (??)
South Africa: Donald, Pollock, Ntini
Sri Lanka: Vaas
Zimbabwe: Streak
West Indies: Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop

6. Spinners:

Australia: Warne, McGill
India: Kumble, Harbhajan
Pakistan: Qadir, Mushtaq, Saqlain
New Zealand: Vettori
Sri Lanka: Muralitharan

Good thread.

 

[adharcric]

I still think we shouldn't allow players to be selected for more than one team. It would just make it boring if Imran was in both teams.

Perhaps if Imran makes it in both teams, we take the two runner-ups (for example, Botham and Waugh) and have a poll asking whether people want Botham & Imran or Imran & Waugh.

 

[oz_fan]

I still think we shouldn't allow players to be selected for more than one team. It would just make it boring if Imran was in both teams.

Perhaps if Imran makes it in both teams, we take the two runner-ups (for example, Botham and Waugh) and have a poll asking whether people want Botham & Imran or Imran & Waugh.

I agree that it should be one team per player. Botham could possibly beat Imran anyway for the number 6 spot because his stats were ruined in his last 15 matches which was after 1986.

 

[shortpitched713]

I still think we shouldn't allow players to be selected for more than one team. It would just make it boring if Imran was in both teams.

I don't see why you see it that way. If Bradman's career was split into two parts by arbitrary date cutoffs, I don't see why he should be selected for one time period and not the other, as he was excellent throughout his career. If a players performances in two time periods merit being selected, I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean why should one have to choose between pre-86 Imran and post-86 Imran or pre-66 Sobers and post-66 Sobers, why can't we have them all.

 

[adharcric]

I don't see why you see it that way. If Bradman's career was split into two parts by arbitrary date cutoffs, I don't see why he should be selected for one time period and not the other, as he was excellent throughout his career. If a players performances in two time periods merit being selected, I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean why should one have to choose between pre-86 Imran and post-86 Imran or pre-66 Sobers and post-66 Sobers, why can't we have them all.

That's what I thought at first, but doesn't it seem kind of boring when you're comparing all-time teams and you end up comparing somebody with (albeit the later version of) himself?
Anyways, let's see what happens, Botham might prevent this issue from arising in the first place.

 

[bagapath]

I don't see why you see it that way. If Bradman's career was split into two parts by arbitrary date cutoffs, I don't see why he should be selected for one time period and not the other, as he was excellent throughout his career. If a players performances in two time periods merit being selected, I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean why should one have to choose between pre-86 Imran and post-86 Imran or pre-66 Sobers and post-66 Sobers, why can't we have them all.

true. but since selecting these teams is an opportunity to discuss and think about so many great players why repeat anyone? we will simply acknowledge (for example) imran's greatness and replace him in the 85 - 2005 team with another great player who might have missed out before. if people select imran (or anyone) for the second time then we should assume he was better in that given phase than in the earlier selection since they have selected him with the knowledge that he was in the other team. aussie tragic! your opinion please....

i hope beefy makes it to this team and avoids this confusion. similarly sobers might prove to be the issue in the present team and in the next team. we will cross that bridge later!

 

[bagapath]

Good thread.

thanks. aussie tragic has been running the show, though... i am simply enjoying the whole process.

 

[adharcric]

if people select imran (or anyone) for the second time then we should assume he was better in that given phase than in the earlier selection since they have selected him with the knowledge that he was in the other team.

This doesn't necessarily mean that he's better in the second team; it just means that he's good enough to be in both teams. That's why I suggested having a poll if this issue does arise which asks whether (for example) people want Botham for Team A and Imran for Team B or Imran for Team A and Waugh for Team B. This would ensure that on the whole, the guys who deserve a place the most get one and no one hogs the limelight.

 

[bagapath]

This doesn't necessarily mean that he's better in the second team; it just means that he's good enough to be in both teams. That's why I suggested having a poll if this issue does arise which asks whether (for example) people want Botham for Team A and Imran for Team B or Imran for Team A and Waugh for Team B. This would ensure that on the whole, the guys who deserve a place the most get one and no one hogs the limelight.

i can see your point. wonder what aussie tragic and others feel about this. we can take a call after we hear a few more opinions. and i still hope we select beefy and avoid the confusion. coz he was the best all rounder of that era!