Playing selector: Lets pick the best test XI of different eras

[bagapath]

i agree. haynes can be included. and wessels too. its a tough call and we can relax a bit. of course, neither would make it to the final XI. but lets keep the options available.

i am relieved to hear sobers wont be competing for the middle order. that should settle so many arguments even before they come up.

can we stick to five day polls for each position with no prelim voting? we will carry over top 3 runners up from each slot in middle order from no. 3 down to no. 6. also we will select the first two fast bowlers in combination. sounds ok?

 

[bagapath]

Saleem Malik: (does not have 20 Innings in any position)

Good. We wont have to deal with the thorny issue of keeping or rejecting convicted match-fixers.

I cant wait for the polls to start man!!! This is going to be fun!!

 

[aussie tragic]

i agree. haynes can be included. and wessels too. its a tough call and we can relax a bit. of course, neither would make it to the final XI. but lets keep the options available.

Okay, Haynes is in and I'll not treat the actual averages whilst in the nominated position as selection criteria (this didn't come up on the last team). This means that Wessels and Rowe are back in as they Ave > 40.00 during the period.

can we stick to five day polls for each position with no prelim voting? we will carry over top 3 runners up from each slot in middle order from no. 3 down to no. 6. also we will select the first two fast bowlers in combination. sounds ok?

I think the Opening Batsmen Poll can be a "pick two" Poll (just like the previous Opening Bowler Poll which worked quite well). Also, I think bringing the 3 runner-ups through the batting Polls last time was one player too many (i.e. two runner-ups would be enough).

I propose to run the 5-day Polls as follows (with max of two running at any one time):

1. Opening Batsmen
2. Wicketkeeper
3. # 3 Nominees
4. Opening Bowlers
5. # 4 nominees + two # 3 runner-ups
6. Spinner
7. # 5 + two # 4 runner-ups
8. # 6 Allrounders + two # 5 runner-ups
9. Final Bowler (Runner-up spinner + four runner-up Pace Bowlers)

Baga, please confirm if above is okay and if you're ready for me to start the first Poll.

 

[Matt79]

For what its worth, I think we should at least include Pollock and B. Richards. I reckon they'd plenty of votes, and I think there's enough out there about them for people to be able to form an opinion. But if no-one agrees, so be it...

 

[aussie tragic]

For what its worth, I think we should at least include Pollock and B. Richards. I reckon they'd plenty of votes, and I think there's enough out there about them for people to be able to form an opinion. But if no-one agrees, so be it...

The whole Team selection is based on test performances during the period in question(which is why Botham and Richards didn't make the 1986-2005 XI), therefore I don't see how they can be included (regrettably).

However as stated before, I will run a Poll at the end of Team selection to see if Richards, Pollock x 2, Procter, Rice etc. are considered to be better than any of the selected XI.

Hope this satisfies the masses.

 

[Matt79]

Fair 'nuff

 

[aussie tragic]

In addition to Murray, Kirmani has now also been excluded from the WK nominees as he only had 196 dismissals from 87 tests (i.e. dismissal rate < 2.5 criteria).

This now just leaves Marsh, Knott and Dujon, which seems to nicely capture the best 3 keepers of that era I think.

 

[aussie tragic]

A 5-day Poll to select the two Opening Batsmen for the 1966-85 World Test XI is now open here:

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20071

 

[aussie tragic]

Well, Gavaskar and Greenidge are leading the openers Poll, with Boycott and Turner looking like the 2nd XI openers (but Poll's still open for 3 more days so hurry up and vote; Bagapath where are you?)

In addition, a 5-day Poll to select the Wicketkeeper for the 1966-85 World Test XI is now open here:

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20117

 

[bagapath]

hi aussie tragic. had not the time to log in in the past three days. your format is absolutely fine. lets go.

 

[aussie tragic]

Upcoming Middle Order nominees for the 1966-85 XI

# 3: Mohinder Amarnath, Ian Chappell, David Gower, Rohan Kanhai, Viv Richards, Graham Yallop, Lawrence Rowe

# 4: Greg Chappell, Larry Gomes, Tom Graveney, Alvin Kallicharran, Javed Miandad, Gundappa Viswanath

# 5: Zaheer Abbas, Allan Border, Clive Lloyd, Doug Walters

Any comments on omissions, batting order, etc....

 

[aussie tragic]

There is a good case for Sobers to bat at #5, for a genuine fast bowling all-rounder at #6, the w/k at #7 and 3 genuine quicks and a genuine spinner to fill up the rest of the positions. The later part of that era saw some great quicks, it would be shame not to have more of them in there, this even more so if you think of including Hadlee or Kapil, for instance, to the squad who can then take the #8 spot. Ideally, that would give you perhaps potentially, the most lethal bowling attack of all time!

I tend to agree with JBH, so what I'm proposing is the following, which basically means that selectors will have a choice as to whether they want a batsman or allrounder at # 5 and # 6.

# 3: Amarnath, I. Chappell, Gower, Kanhai, Richards, Rowe, Yallop

# 4: G. Chappell, Gomes, Graveney, Kallicharran, Miandad, Viswanath, Border, Lloyd, Walters + 3 runner-ups from # 3

#5: Zaheer Abbas, Greig, Sobers + 3 runner-ups from # 4

# 6: Botham, Kapil Dev, Imran Khan + 3 runner-ups from # 5

Notes:
(1) Zareer Abbass only qualifies for # 5
(2) Allrounders at # 5 all average > 40.00
(3) Allrounders at # 6 all average > 30.00

 

[Perm]

What are Martin Crowe's stats for this era? I would've thought he would be right up there.

 

[aussie tragic]

What are Martin Crowe's stats for this era? I would've thought he would be right up there.

Note Baga's post below.

Martin Crowe wont make it. ave < 40

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50

unfiltered 77 5444 299 45.36 17 18
filtered 26 1422 188 34.68 3 5

 

[aussie tragic]

The first Poll is closed and the 1966-85 World Test XI so far:

1. Sunil Gavaskar: 111 Tests, 9020 runs @ 50.67 (31/39)
2. Gordon Greenidge: 66 Tests, 4816 runs @ 49.14 (12/26)

The # 3 Position Poll is now open here:

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20194


Also, the 1966-85 World Test 2nd XI so far:

Geoff Boycott: 93 Tests, 7129 runs @ 47.84 (20/36)
Glenn Turner: 41 Tests, 2991 runs @ 44.64 (7/14)

 

[JBH001]

Aussie Tragoc
JBH, discussions on the make-up of the team are on the main thread which can be found here

Ah, sorry about that Aussie T - and thanks for the heads up.
TBH, I thought this thread was about the old selection - maybe it is time to split the thread, and call it Best XI from 66 - 85? Just to avoid confusion....

Anyway, getting back to what I was saying - yeah, I think Sobers should bat at #5.
It would give the team greater flexibility, the batting would not be overly weakened, and if it were, it would be balanced by the enormous strengthening of the bowling.

Basically you have more options in team selection and balance with Sobers at #5, as you can play 2 all-rounders, 2 quicks, and a spinner, or 1 all-rounder, 3 quicks, and a spinner, or my favourite, 1 all-rounder, 2 quicks, 2 spinners. Sobers would be more than able back-up and give great variety to any of these combinations.

This may mean that Border or Miandad, for instance, may miss out, but perhaps that can be rectified by inserting an extra batsman as the 12th man - though imo, it might be better to install the loser of the all-rounder category as 12th man and forget about an extra pure batsman altogether, because an extra all-rounder would give cover anywhere and give you the ability to drop a spinner depending on pitch conditions, while keeping the batting and the bowling strong. So yeah, Sobers at #5 imo.

 

[Pratters]

This is really excellent. I hope we can go all the way to 1876-7 after we select a post war XI..

On a player making two teams like say Imran.. It shouldn't be an issue as we are picking the best of the given era.

Also, aussie tragic, may I suggest howstat which has lists and stats of all tests players by country if you need.

 

[aussie tragic]

The following pace bowlers are excluded from the 1966-85 World XI due to not meeting the selection criteria of Ave < 30.00 or SR < 60.0:

David Brown: 23 tests, 68 wkts @ 28.91, SR 64.5, Econ 2.68
Alan Connolly: 23 tests, 89 wkts @ 27.94, SR 73.2, Econ 2.28
Geoff Dymock: 21 tests, 78 wkts @ 27.12, SR 71.0, Econ 2.28
Mike Hendrick: 30 tests, 87 wkts @ 25.83, SR 71.3, Econ 2.17
Rodney Hogg: 38 tests, 123 wkts @ 28.47, SR 62.0, Econ 2.75
John Lever: 20 tests, 67 wkts @ 26.64, SR 61.4, Econ 2.60
Graham McKenzie: 31 tests, 120 wkts @ 31.20, SR 76.0, Econ 2.46
Sarfraz Nawaz: 55 tests, 177 wkts @ 32.75, SR 78.8, Econ 2.49
Chris Old: 46 tests, 143 wkts @ 28.11, SR 61.9, Econ 2.72
Max Walker: 34 tests, 138 wkts @ 27.47, SR 73.1, Econ 2.25

 

[aussie tragic]

The 1966-85 World XI so far is:

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Gordon Greenidge
3. Viv Richards (Poll still running)
7. Alan Knott

Opening bowler Poll is now running here: http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20258

Also, the 1966-85 2nd XI is:

1. Geoff Boycott
2. Glenn Turner
3. I. Chappell / Gower / Armanath (Poll still running)
7. Rod Marsh

 

[aussie tragic]

Just to further highlight how good the spinners of the 1986-05 era are, only three 1966-85 spinners meet the selection criteria of SR < 75.0

As this is not a fair representation of the spinners during this period, I’ve now increased the SR criteria to < 85.0 and nine spinners now qualify.

However, the following would then still excluded due to a SR > 85.0.

Phil Edmonds: 33 tests, 88 wkts @ 32.56, SR 93.5, Econ 2.08
John Emburey: 28 tests, 75 wkts @ 29.86, SR 86.3, Econ 2.07
Lance Gibbs: 53 tests, 197 wkts @ 32.28, SR 96.8, Econ 2.00

Note the economy rates, it appears containment was more important than wkts back then?

All comments welcome