Persisting with Failure : Good captaincy or Stupid Obstinacy ??

[Neil Pickup]

Anyone fancy finding some similar figures for other keepers?

 

[Arjun]

New revelation by Kirti Azad

Last evening in the presence of Ajay Jadeja and selector Asok Malhotra, Kirti Azad said on live TV that, the selection of Parthiv was not unanimous. Two out of the five selectors , himself and selection committee Chairman (former keeping great) Kirmani were against.

However, this was not the most sensational bit.

According to Kirti, when Kirmani pointed out the deficiencies of Parthiv as a keeper , another selector (whom he refused to name to avoid opening a can of worms) abused Kirmani and called him a goal keeper , a long stop and asked him what were his (Kirmani's) own credentials !!!

We havent heard the last of what is quickly becoming a major scandal. Now we need Parthiv to drop a few more sitters for the sh** to really hit the sky

Good work! You may be the sting journalist that I wanted for the work of infiltrating the establishment and revealing the murky insides!

About Deep "The Drop" Dasgupta, you have to be Carl Hooper, ready with 233 excuses, to want him back in the team!

About Samir Dighe, he was good, but was not given a fair try. He had kept well to the Sairaj/Powar/Pawar/Nilesh gang for several years, and he just had one bad series.

About the search for an Indian Gilchrist, you have to remember that Gilchrist is a genuine all-rounder. He should not be grouped with Boucher, Sangakkara, McCullum and Jacobs, but with Cairns, Kallis, Klusener, Pollock, Razzaq, Akram and Flintoff. If the selectors cannot find a keeper who can bat, then they can try for a bowler who can get runs. As many as 5 FC bowlers can get more runs than any of the keepers tried so far, except Dravid, if you call him a keeper.

 

[marc71178]

Name these 5 then.

 

[SJS]

Good work! You may be the sting journalist that I wanted for the work of infiltrating the establishment and revealing the murky insides!

.

Thanks for the offer. But there were no secrets here to be probed by a 'sting' journalist , musrly or otherwise. It was up live on prime time television last night and this morning it was quoted by all main daily papers.

Rest of what you say. No comments.

 

[Arjun]

Thanks for the offer. But there were no secrets here to be probed by a 'sting' journalist , musrly or otherwise. It was up live on prime time television last night and this morning it was quoted by all main daily papers.

Rest of what you say. No comments.

Which channel? My guess is NDTV24x7.

 

[SJS]

Which channel? My guess is NDTV24x7.

How does it matter , which channel. When some one is speaking live and you can hear their words and their lips moving in sync , you believe it no ??

The news paper..well have you ever heard of a 150 year old newspaper from Mumbai called the Times of India ??

 

[Sanz]

You dont have to take it personally.

SJS, I am not taking it personally. I am not related to Parthiv, neither am I from Baroda nor a Patel. Yes he drops some easy ones so what there are many keepers who do it, Take for example Moin Khan, Mark Boucher and Brendon Mccullum. And if he is that bad Please get a new wicketkeeper, but let him play as a batsman, he will play better than Mr. Chopra and Mr. Singh. He has proved it time and again.

As for the analysis someone did on Parthiv's wicket Keeping, Can someone do an analysis on the no. of catches Laxman has dropped, no. of times he has misfielded, no of times he has been involved in a runout, no. of times he has converted 2 runs into 1s and 3s into 2s because of his poor running, no. of times he has refused to take a single because he is too lazy to take a single. In last 8 or 9 innings (Since Sydney) he has only one score of 50+ and he is miserable in this series. I dont think he has proved enough.

It seems to me that we are looking for a scapegoat and since no one has the balls to touch 'Dravid', 'Sachin', 'Ganguly', 'Lax' & 'Sehwag' (because they are too big and too powerful to be touched) and now that the bowlers have performed well, only one person remains to be sacrificed and that is 'PARTHIV PATEL'. Easiest of the target, and what a timing it was, in the middle of such an important test. You open any newspapers, go to any website, people are gunning for one man and that is 'Parthiv Patel'.

 

[Dar]

I don't think many people are saying Patel is the reason India are losing this series. The fact is he is keeping terribly and shouldn't be in the team. If India were winning the series i'm sure people would still be gunning for Patel. The fact that they are losing makes it worse but when you are missing the amount of chances Patel is you can hardly blame people for crucifying him.

And people are criticizing the batsman, i read an article saying Dravid's innings was painful and was reminicent of his old self. The difference is that Patel should be dropped whereas Dravid, Laxman etc shouldn't

 

[Sanz]

I dont know why he is speaking now ? Maybe he is upset at not being a selector anymore

I think the more likely reason is that under the code of conduct of the BCCI, selectors can not comment on the debate/voting during selectors meetings as long as they are members of the committee.

According to him, both he and Kirmani have been voting for dropping Patel for quite sometime but they were outvoted 2 to 3 everytime. And yes, he has confirmed(in an interview to Times of India), that it was More who abused Kirmani and questioned his credentials to comment on Patel's keeping.

Check todays TOI, Bombay edition, sports page for details. BTW, he could not be saying all this in public without there being some truth in it for surely this is going to blow up.

I am not saying that there is no truth in all this. But why now, He was part of the selection committe which not only picked up Parthiv Patel but also persisted with him despite repeated failures. He can not shrug off his shoulders and say 'I always voted against his selection'. As for Kirmani, he was the 'Chief Selector' and if More indeed abused him then he he should have either kicked More out or resigned. Why all the dirt now. Both Kirti and Kirmani are responsible for current mess. If BCCI code of conduct prevented them from speaking earlier than they should have resigned.

It's like AB Vajpayee blaming his ministers for the problems.

 

[bryce]

i don't know how many of you have read this article, its not the newest one but an interesting and relavent one....

Finders Keepers

 

[twctopcat]

It seems to me that we are looking for a scapegoat and since no one has the balls to touch 'Dravid', 'Sachin', 'Ganguly', 'Lax' & 'Sehwag' (because they are too big and too powerful to be touched) and now that the bowlers have performed well, only one person remains to be sacrificed and that is 'PARTHIV PATEL'. Easiest of the target, and what a timing it was, in the middle of such an important test. You open any newspapers, go to any website, people are gunning for one man and that is 'Parthiv Patel'.

It's a difficult, they are the "galactico's" of indian cricket and there is a question of complacency but with Dravid and Tendulkar i don't think this is the case, they are too dedicated and professional. Laxman seems a bit laissez faire and Sehwag still has things to learn about test match batting. As for Ganguly, well he's Ganguly. The problem is reputation rather than results speaks more in india than any other cricketing nation. Of course they shouldn't be dropped but the guilty culprits need a proverbial boot up the ****.

 

[Sanz]

i don't know how many of you have read this article, its not the newest one but an interesting and relavent one....

Finders Keepers

Hahahah, That's funny. Almost everyone including the then Chief Selector thought as the best of the lot. And the fact that they considered his batting weaker than his Wicket Keeping skills. It just their incompetence.

 

[Dasa]

^It's not that... when Patel first came onto the scene, he was a very good 'keeper, and a very average batsman... however, it seems that as his batting gets better, his keeping deteriorates.

 

[Sanz]

Erapalli Prasanna :- "Parthiv Patel has emerged as a stronger cricketer and has cemented his place in this Indian Test team. He has been a revelation behind the stumps - trust me it is not an easy task to keep when the ball is jumping and turning. The kid has developed a great deal since I first saw him at the NCA in Bangalore and I am sure that he will go on to represent India for many more years."

Farokh Engineer :- "Parthiv has all the right credentials to be India's finest gloveman....Parthiv's reflexes, movement behind the stumps and gathering down the leg side, which is the blind zone for a wicket-keeper, are of a high quality".

Yashpal Sharma :- "He is a very good young cricketer and looks very confident. As a wicket-keeper, he is technically very good, and he is also a hard-hitting batsman."

Syed Kirmani :- "I suppose Parthiv Patel is showing good signs he can keep wickets and play in one-dayers also,"

Some people who seem to know a thing or two about Cricket and WicketKeeping.

 

[Sanz]

^It's not that... when Patel first came onto the scene, he was a very good 'keeper, and a very average batsman... however, it seems that as his batting gets better, his keeping deteriorates.

Yeah sure, I guess I must have made the above statements myself.

 

[SJS]

Erapalli Prasanna :- "Parthiv Patel has emerged as a stronger cricketer and has cemented his place in this Indian Test team. He has been a revelation behind the stumps - trust me it is not an easy task to keep when the ball is jumping and turning. The kid has developed a great deal since I first saw him at the NCA in Bangalore and I am sure that he will go on to represent India for many more years."

Farokh Engineer :- "Parthiv has all the right credentials to be India's finest gloveman....Parthiv's reflexes, movement behind the stumps and gathering down the leg side, which is the blind zone for a wicket-keeper, are of a high quality".

Yashpal Sharma :- "He is a very good young cricketer and looks very confident. As a wicket-keeper, he is technically very good, and he is also a hard-hitting batsman."

Syed Kirmani :- "I suppose Parthiv Patel is showing good signs he can keep wickets and play in one-dayers also,"

Some people who seem to know a thing or two about Cricket and WicketKeeping.

SANZ, I could have answered your list of those who said whatever they did about Parthiv with an equally impressive list of those who are saying something else today not yesterday or day before. But I dont form my opinions based on what others say. I can see for myself and I understand my cricket. (Incidentally, to answer what you have asked elsewhere, thats perhaps the reason why I comment more on the Indian cricket and Indian cricketers since I see more of them.)

Can you sincerely answer this

1. Is Parthiv keeping in the current series :
a) Excellent,
b) Good,
c) Average,
d) Poor ?

2. Should Parthiv be :
a) India's keeper for the next three years,
b) the keeper for the fourth test,
c) dropped(as a keeper) and brought back (as a keeper) after some more time in the domestic circuit provided India hasnt discovered a very good keeper in the meantime who deserves being persisted with (clarifying yet again he may be considered today, tomorrow anytime as a batsman alone)
d) thrown out of Indian cricket for good ?

I think your answer will tell you what everyone here really is saying. I doubt if any one know Parthiv well enough to love him or hate him. As far as the Indian selectors, their credentials, their double speak or hypocrisy are concerned, that can reflect on them not on Parthiv. Parthiv(his keeping that is) can, should and will be judged on his performance behind the stumps only. So emotions. extraneous factors etc. are ridiculous to tom tom here.

Regards

PS. One more thing. Much before this test started, I have supported his being considered as a batman alone (and also supported his being considered to open the innings) here on this forum. I think he has the makings of a very good batsman. A keeper, maybe, just maybe, but he needs a break from keeping at the highest level otherwise he will be finished (if he already isnt). This is what I have consistently said. And this is not an emotional response

 

[Deja moo]

^ Is he really that good a batsman though ? Rarely does he play an innings where the ball does not travel through the slips cordon atleast 3 times.

 

[SJS]

^ Is he really that good a batsman though ? Rarely does he play an innings where the ball does not travel through the slips cordon atleast 3 times.

Well, he has done not too badly. He has his flaws particularly the habit of trying to run the bal down the guly area (shades of Ganguly ) but he has had a very creditable run you know in tests upto the Nagpur test, when this discussion took place.

So while its not a cert by any stretch of imagination, he does have some claim at least for a position on the bench ??. More than his keeping for sure

 

[bryce]

i wouldn't think that warrants him being able to leap-frog someone like rayudu for a specialist batsman spot who has performed in domestic cricket.

 

[Arjun]

i wouldn't think that warrants him being able to leap-frog someone like rayudu for a specialist batsman spot who has performed in domestic cricket.

Rayudu has only performed against weak bowling attacks such as Andhra, with a double century, but against better bowling sides, he has struggled. He has to many technical flaws to make a national team. He needs to be more consistent, against better bowlers.