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Pat Cummins

Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
So what you are saying is you wanna assume someone did not do something and act based on that than go by what we are actually seeing on the field?
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My point is that if everyone is doing their jobs then that doesn't happen in the first place. This is not a slight tactical error we're talking about here, this is an experienced international cricketer putting up some of the worst, most braindead tactics that I've seen in my life. Many things have to have gone wrong here and it's important to identify them all so this doesn't linger even if Cummins is sacked as captain/resigns.

It's like a plane crash; it's never just one thing that went wrong.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
subshakerz said:
Tactical mistakes happen, like Stokes with his declaration in the 1st test doesnt make him a bad captain automatically.

Captaincy is more about bringing out the best in your team, especially when their back in against the wall and in key moments. Cummins can do that from what I have seen in this tour, aside from the nadir in this test, and I wouldn't rubbish him based on missteps.

If Cummins can go against the grind in the next test and Australia win, yeah that does reflect well on him. Beating England in England is no mean achievement.
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When a mistake lasts for three Test matches then it's no longer just a mistake.

And it sure as hell isn't bringing out the best of these bowlers.
 
the big bambino

the big bambino

International Captain
Starfighter said:
If you don't like people contesting what you wrote, don't write it (regardless of what language it's in). I interpreted what you wrote the way any reasonable person would. You reaffirmed it as well.
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I think I'm ok with anyone contesting my posts - you're not special. My problem is with people misunderstanding them. So please stop diverting what is your problem and projecting it as mine.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Like hb seems to be claiming that I'm making all these excuses for Cummins and his captaincy is #actually fine. It's not, Head should be captain ASAP. But even the best leaders always need someone in their ear going "hey this is ****ing stupid" from time to time and it's not clear that one exists in the Aus set up right now. Anyone can make one off mistakes in the heat of the moment, I get that. But the same mistake persisting for three Test matches is just not acceptable. Everyone involved needs to face serious scrutiny of their positions.

Mind you, similar could be said for the English set up before this game.
 
Starfighter

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
the big bambino said:
I think I'm ok with anyone contesting my posts - you're not special. My problem is with people misunderstanding them. So please stop diverting what is your problem and projecting it as mine.
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I didn't misunderstand what you wrote - you confirmed I understood it correctly.

You sure love to pull out the 'projection' card when someone disagrees with what you wrote and you then claim (without explaining) how what you wrote doesn't mean what it in fact does.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Spark said:
When a mistake lasts for three Test matches then it's no longer just a mistake.

And it sure as hell isn't bringing out the best of these bowlers.
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Starc was pretty good. Yeah the others have disappointed but on the plus side until this test, he managed to keep BazBall mostly contained without Lyon on board.

I am not calling Cummins a great captain btw, merely a good one with limits and shortcomings. I think posters here were expecting Australia to run over England or something whereas I always thought it would be a tight contest because England are punching consistently above their weight.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
subshakerz said:
Starc was pretty good. Yeah the others have disappointed but on the plus side until this test, he managed to keep BazBall mostly contained.

I am not calling Cummins a great captain btw, merely a good one with limits and shortcomings.
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"Contained" such as allowing 200-ish runs to the tail in a game where only 500 runs where scored per team in the previous game?
 
the big bambino

the big bambino

International Captain
Starfighter said:
I didn't misunderstand what you wrote - you confirmed I understood it correctly.

You sure love to pull out the 'projection' card when someone disagrees with what you wrote and you then claim (without explaining) how what you wrote doesn't mean what it in fact does.
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Only with you. Because you do. I clearly said I was referring to consequences and then went on to discuss responsibility simply because you insisted.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Spark said:
Like hb seems to be claiming that I'm making all these excuses for Cummins and his captaincy is #actually fine. It's not, Head should be captain ASAP. But even the best leaders always need someone in their ear going "hey this is ****ing stupid" from time to time and it's not clear that one exists in the Aus set up right now. Anyone can make one off mistakes in the heat of the moment, I get that. But the same mistake persisting for three Test matches is just not acceptable. Everyone involved needs to face serious scrutiny of their positions.

Mind you, similar could be said for the English set up before this game.
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Saying the entire management needs to be accountable is one thing, but you basically suggested they should be accountable before Cummins which is the part I disagree with.


EDIT - To clarify, i dont mind if you have a bias towards Cummins. We all have our favorite players and do that.
 
Starfighter

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
the big bambino said:
Only with you. Because you do. I clearly said I was referring to consequences and then went on to discuss responsibility simply because you insisted.
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Your posts (including the one I originally replied to) include clear comments about responsibility. Maybe you can explain how they don't.
 
S

Spofforth

School Boy/Girl Captain
subshakerz said:
Guess what, you put someone else there they are going to screw up too. Stokes gets the most out of the team and that is what matters most.
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I agree he screws up at times. In fact I contend that the poms being 2-1 down is in no small part due to his captaincy errors.

In my opinion that doesn't indicate "awesomeness", much less and "absolute" form of it. Then again I have doubts that absolutes exist in reality.

The term "hyperbole" might be relevant to your original assertion?
 
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