*Official* West Indies Tour of England, JULY 9th to 25th, 2024-- 3 TEST MATCHES

[FBU]

ohhh he took the vaunted last five wickets of the west indies i'm sooooo owned

Thinking of India
Bumrah (4) 19 wickets at 16.89 (103.5 overs)
Wood (3) 4 wickets at 77.75 (77.5 overs) Jaiswal, Sharma, Gill and Bumrah and a run out Sarafaz Khan

 

[danzydab]

Wood was disappointing in India, maybe he didnt get enough of a break after the world cup.
England are betting on him being fit for the ashes, when he will be almost a few months away from turning 36 years old.

 

[WICFan]

Wood was disappointing in India, maybe he didnt get enough of a break after the world cup.
England are betting on him being fit for the ashes, when he will be almost a few months away from turning 36 years old.

They're planning for Archer to play against India, could see them rotating those two if they somehow make it till them unscathed.

 

[Hungry Llama]

They're planning for Archer to play against India, could see them rotating those two if they somehow make it till them unscathed.

Seems very unlikely. When Archer was asked about this, he didnt sound overly optimistic. I doubt if either of them will make it to oz
in a fit state.

 

[GirthQuake]

Thinking of India
Bumrah (4) 19 wickets at 16.89 (103.5 overs)
Wood (3) 4 wickets at 77.75 (77.5 overs) Jaiswal, Sharma, Gill and Bumrah and a run out Sarafaz Khan

Did Wood have a complement of spinners as threatening as Ashwin/Kuldeep/jadeja operating from the other end? I believe Bumrah is objectively a vastly superior bowler to Wood but even so straight one on one comparison without taking into account the entire bowlinng attack dynamic as well as the conditions is flat out misleading.

 

[Burgey]

They are doing ok, yes it's about 48 or so and yes batsmen get failures and get out early but I think it is a little too simplistic to talk about average partnerships and not what an individual player is doing. I would prefer to see a little less profligacy from both players as I've said above. If that does happen then there is every chance that goes a few runs higher, but I'm more concerned about the overall team score. Too often England get out for not very significant scores as per the 1st test and 2nd test first innings, when a whole load of players got in and got out. Sure, it wasn't significant in the final reckoning but it tends to get exposed against the better sides and it was brutally in India.

They wouldn't make as many runs if they didn't bat the way they do. That's the price you buy them at. There's no point those blokes trying to play a more orthodox opener's sort of role because they lack the temperament and the technique to do it. Their value is the pressure they bring by scoring quickly meaning standard new ball tactics go out the window early.

It's almost certain they will get found out now more teams have had a look at them, because even though it's an attacking dimension, the way they play is still one dimensional. Teams react and set different fields. Then it will be up to these guys to see if they can in turn react.

They're just maximizing their chances of scoring.

The worst sort of Pommy supporter the past 18 months has been those who on the one hand wax lyrical about how fast the team scores, then lament when wickets get "thrown away" playing aggressively. It's two sides of the one coin.

 

[Chin Music]

They wouldn't make as many runs if they didn't bat the way they do. That's the price you buy them at. There's no point those blokes trying to play a more orthodox opener's sort of role because they lack the temperament and the technique to do it. Their value is the pressure they bring by scoring quickly meaning standard new ball tactics go out the window early.

It's almost certain they will get found out now more teams have had a look at them, because even though it's an attacking dimension, the way they play is still one dimensional. Teams react and set different fields. Then it will be up to these guys to see if they can in turn react.

They're just maximizing their chances of scoring.

The worst sort of Pommy supporter the past 18 months has been those who on the one hand wax lyrical about how fast the team scores, then lament when wickets get "thrown away" playing aggressively. It's two sides of the one coin.

It's when they get in and don't kick on that I have a problem with rather than proactive attacking from the start. That comes with risk and reward, and it fails sometimes for sure but when it does work and they are in, what is wrong with continuing to pick up singles with the fields spread rather than often looking for the big shot and getting out? I don't see that a bit of sensible game management doesn't come in handy from time to time.

 

[Howe_zat]

It's when they get in and don't kick on that I have a problem with rather than proactive attacking from the start. That comes with risk and reward, and it fails sometimes for sure but when it does work and they are in, what is wrong with continuing to pick up singles with the fields spread rather than often looking for the big shot and getting out? I don't see that a bit of sensible game management doesn't come in handy from time to time.

The fact that you've randomly decided that getting 80 is the worst thing a batsman can possibly do when it's just objectively good is honestly among the strangest gripes I've ever seen.

 

[Chin Music]

The fact that you've randomly decided that getting 80 is the worst thing a batsman can possibly do when it's just objectively good is honestly among the strangest gripes I've ever seen.

Eh? It is more of a general gripe about not kicking on more and no particular score from say 20+ upwards.

 

[chris.hinton]

This was a waste of 3 test matches. West Indies are poor batting 2 innings, Some of their bowling has been good but they are a long way off this isn't a top England side and we won 3-0 with ease.

 

[wpdavid]

The 2nd and 3rd tests were slightly odd affairs as they were competitive for a couple of days until suddenly they weren't. And then things unravelled pdq for the WI side. But yeah, it's hard to argue with the end result, even allowing for the Root LBW that wasn't at Edgbaston.

 

[Chin Music]

As was said, WI came into the series very cold, no red ball for 5 months and then just a three day practice game. No wonder a few of their bowlers looked very undercooked and that their batting, which was vulnerable anyway, look utterly inadequate at Lord's. They still look to have at least a bit of talent in both departments. I'm pretty sure they have sent worse sides, such as the one that came for two tests in 2009, even if they have managed to nick the odd draw and win at other times. I'm still not convinced England wouldn't find a way to muck up a result in the Caribbean though.....

 

[Ali TT]

The 2nd and 3rd tests were slightly odd affairs as they were competitive for a couple of days until suddenly they weren't. And then things unravelled pdq for the WI side. But yeah, it's hard to argue with the end result, even allowing for the Root LBW that wasn't at Edgbaston.

Often the way in test cricket though as hard to dominate every session in a game even against much inferior opposition.

 

[ashley bach]

It's really poor how there can be no practice or warm up games. Kind of makes a mockery of the importance of a test series.

 

[WICFan]

We can go on about those missing due to preferring to play T/20 leagues but it is what it is.

Holder and Seales played a bit of County cricket, but the West Indies could've done with playing a test against Ireland or sending two or three of the squad with the Academy on the tour of Ireland beforehand as well.

 

[andruid]

Thenone thing almost as bad as a two match test series ending up 1-1 is a one sided 3 match series. Help us all someone

 

[Beamer]

I saw enough from our bowling attack to say that an inform group, in rhythm, with miles in the legs, could bowl England out cheaply fairly consistently. The lack of red ball practice really affected Shamar in particular and Alzarri (though I have my doubts about him anyway). Roach missing was irritating but given his overseas record, not a huge loss.

But we have a batting crisis. The result against Australia paved over some large cracks because Hodge, Da Silva and Sinclair scraped enough runs together for the bowlers to work with.

More often than not, prep or no prep, that batting lineup will fail. It's just not good enough. England's attack is very impressive, credit where it's due, and we did not even look like combatting it outside of one innings at Trent Bridge. If we want to grow as a test side, beyond just better prep, we need to do something drastic with our batting. If we acknowledge that we lose a lot of batters to white ball cricket, it's really those guys that we need to compromise with, so at least our most talented batsmen are playing, for better or for worse. In particular, King and Pooran. I'd reach out to Hety and see if he will go on some sort of A programme with a view to accelerating his reintroduction to the test team. Obviously, these are short term fixes, unlikely to change much. Ultimately, pitches and facilities need to be better and we need a regional focus on developing red ball batsmen. What we saw here and in Australia for the most part wasn't good enough.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I saw enough from our bowling attack to say that an inform group, in rhythm, with miles in the legs, could bowl England out cheaply fairly consistently. The lack of red ball practice really affected Shamar in particular and Alzarri (though I have my doubts about him anyway). Roach missing was irritating but given his overseas record, not a huge loss.

But we have a batting crisis. The result against Australia paved over some large cracks because Hodge, Da Silva and Sinclair scraped enough runs together for the bowlers to work with.

More often than not, prep or no prep, that batting lineup will fail. It's just not good enough. England's attack is very impressive, credit where it's due, and we did not even look like combatting it outside of one innings at Trent Bridge. If we want to grow as a test side, beyond just better prep, we need to do something drastic with our batting. If we acknowledge that we lose a lot of batters to white ball cricket, it's really those guys that we need to compromise with, so at least our most talented batsmen are playing, for better or for worse. In particular, King and Pooran. I'd reach out to Hety and see if he will go on some sort of A programme with a view to accelerating his reintroduction to the test team. Obviously, these are short term fixes, unlikely to change much. Ultimately, pitches and facilities need to be better and we need a regional focus on developing red ball batsmen. What we saw here and in Australia for the most part wasn't good enough.

One example that's really simple is to bat all day. Shiv Chanderpaul invested in a bowling machine and used to bat against it all day. Also, if pitches are not as quick to play and gain experience on...how to remedy this? Back in my old club we used to have a concrete strip that was slightly short than a cricket pitch. We used that to practice against high pace. Why can't they just position a bowling machine and turn up the pace and practice the **** out of it? WHat are these batting coaches getting paid for? But I digress, time is needed. It doesn't happen overnight.

 

[GIMH]

They wouldn't make as many runs if they didn't bat the way they do. That's the price you buy them at. There's no point those blokes trying to play a more orthodox opener's sort of role because they lack the temperament and the technique to do it. Their value is the pressure they bring by scoring quickly meaning standard new ball tactics go out the window early.

It's almost certain they will get found out now more teams have had a look at them, because even though it's an attacking dimension, the way they play is still one dimensional. Teams react and set different fields. Then it will be up to these guys to see if they can in turn react.

They're just maximizing their chances of scoring.

The worst sort of Pommy supporter the past 18 months has been those who on the one hand wax lyrical about how fast the team scores, then lament when wickets get "thrown away" playing aggressively. It's two sides of the one coin.

I agree with this.

You live by the sword you die by the sword. Detractors like to point to the two lost Tests last Ashes but play as we were 20-21 last summer then you get the defeats without the victories.

Can’t have your cake and eat it, or something

 

[Beamer]

One example that's really simple is to bat all day. Shiv Chanderpaul invested in a bowling machine and used to bat against it all day. Also, if pitches are not as quick to play and gain experience on...how to remedy this? Back in my old club we used to have a concrete strip that was slightly short than a cricket pitch. We used that to practice against high pace. Why can't they just position a bowling machine and turn up the pace and practice the **** out of it? WHat are these batting coaches getting paid for? But I digress, time is needed. It doesn't happen overnight.

Totally. There are adaptations we can make. It will take time but if it were up to me, I would bring in Pooran and King and say 'you are the most talented batsmen we have ', now have a proper go at tests.