*Official* West Indies Tour of England, JULY 9th to 25th, 2024-- 3 TEST MATCHES

[Beamer]

WI imo, really need to pick their best 4 bowlers and stop batting Holder at 6. The batting is too fragile to have him that high and we could use an extra 'competent' batsman. Plus, Holder isn't worth his place in the team on bowling alone anymore.

Fully agreed. He is now unbalancing the side.

 

[honestbharani]

Disappointing but Windies seemed to be victims of the "one poor session" or "one poor innings" all through the series. Hopefully they play more A cricket and a longer home FC season that can help them prepare better for such series.

Congrats to England. That was very thorough.

 

[Shady Slim]

Oh

ohhh he took the vaunted last five wickets of the west indies i'm sooooo owned

 

[Prince EWS]

ohhh he took the vaunted last five wickets of the west indies i'm sooooo owned

Take the L.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Ben Stokes record as a Test opener is quite amusing

2 innings, 2 50's , 135 runs at no average , SR - 158.82

 

[Chin Music]

I look at England's batting and struggle to see how they are really a better side than at any point over the last year. Sure, Smith looks like he could strengthen a little at 7 but I see nothing that suggests Crawley or Duckett are really kicking on after the opportunities that they have been given. I can't really see them being dropped though, given the mindset of the coach/captain.

 

[GIMH]

ohhh he took the vaunted last five wickets of the west indies i'm sooooo owned

Haha so dire. Take no wickets, oh he’s crap. Take all the wickets, oh well those wickets don’t count because those players are crap.

 

[GIMH]

I look at England's batting and struggle to see how they are really a better side than at any point over the last year. Sure, Smith looks like he could strengthen a little at 7 but I see nothing that suggests Crawley or Duckett are really kicking on after the opportunities that they have been given. I can't really see them being dropped though, given the mindset of the coach/captain.

Crawley hit a 70-odd, a couple of failures and an unfortunate run out. That followed him being our best bat V India and Oz. Seems pretty knee jerk to now talk about not kicking on and it would be ludicrous if he was dropped.

Duckett has even fewer questions to answer currently, but did give it away a bit this series.

 

[Chin Music]

Crawley hit a 70-odd, a couple of failures and an unfortunate run out. That followed him being our best bat V India and Oz. Seems pretty knee jerk to now talk about not kicking on and it would be ludicrous if he was dropped.

Duckett has even fewer questions to answer currently, but did give it away a bit this series.

But if he doesn't kick on now, then when? He's had a pretty good run in the side for a long while and although the McCullum era has seen the best of him (from really naff all before hand) then what constitutes success? I see success as an individual player getting to register centuries on a reasonably regular level. Even if we note his relative success in the Stokes era that still only constitutes 2 test centuries from 26 tests.

Sure Duckett, has a reasonable record, but again, I would like to see a few more 3 figure entries from him moving forward.

 

[GIMH]

But if he doesn't kick on now, then when? He's had a pretty good run in the side for a long while and although the McCullum era has seen the best of him (from really naff all before hand) then what constitutes success? I see success as an individual player getting to register centuries on a reasonably regular level. Even if we note his relative success in the Stokes era that still only constitutes 2 test centuries from 26 tests.

Sure Duckett, has a reasonable record, but again, I would like to see a few more 3 figure entries from him moving forward.

It would be nice if he tonned up more but Joe Root coming out at 10-2 is a rarity rather than the norm, because we’ve built a partnership at the top. No idea if it’s still true two Tests later given Root’s form but @Howe_zat posted a stat earlier in the series that Crawley is the leading run scorer in the world since the beginning of 2023. So I really don’t see how, after a series where he played four innings, scored a 70-odd, run out at the non striker’s end, and two failures, it is the time to start asking questions again. If he stinks the joint out V Sri Lanka, maybe.

 

[Chin Music]

It would be nice if he tonned up more but Joe Root coming out at 10-2 is a rarity rather than the norm, because we’ve built a partnership at the top. No idea if it’s still true two Tests later given Root’s form but @Howe_zat posted a stat earlier in the series that Crawley is the leading run scorer in the world since the beginning of 2023. So I really don’t see how, after a series where he played four innings, scored a 70-odd, run out at the non striker’s end, and two failures, it is the time to start asking questions again. If he stinks the joint out V Sri Lanka, maybe.

No-one is questioning the change of emphasis since the start of the McCullum era, and no-one should be, it is better to have a far more attacking emphasis. However, I do see both batsmen as rather profligate, both in the early stages of their innings and when they have got a reasonable score on the board. I am not saying that they should go back into their shell, just a bit more of a managed risk to maximise their productivity. In reality I don't see that much high a ceiling from either, although in the latter case of Duckett, should he continue to average 40 then that's fine. I would still like to see a few more tons though. Then again, I think that about the entire England batting lineup, Root and Stokes most definitely included.

 

[GIMH]

I think more tons would be nice, and they do have things they could and should improve. But remembering when we were with openers before we landed on them, I’m happy that their places are secure.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

But if he doesn't kick on now, then when? He's had a pretty good run in the side for a long while and although the McCullum era has seen the best of him (from really naff all before hand) then what constitutes success? I see success as an individual player getting to register centuries on a reasonably regular level. Even if we note his relative success in the Stokes era that still only constitutes 2 test centuries from 26 tests.

Sure Duckett, has a reasonable record, but again, I would like to see a few more 3 figure entries from him moving forward.

What should Crawley and Duckett be averaging as an opening partnership for you to trust them ?
Like an average opening stand in tests

 

[Chin Music]

What should Crawley and Duckett be averaging as an opening partnership for you to trust them ?
Like an average opening stand in tests

It isn't so much of an issue of their opening partnership, after all there are times when all players get out early regardless of their form. It is more what a player does overall and to me, I would like to see both players show more ability to kick on in individual innings.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

It isn't so much of an issue of their opening partnership, after all there are times when all players get out early regardless of their form. It is more what a player does overall and to me, I would like to see both players show more ability to kick on in individual innings.

Sure but I asked you a direct question, since we talking about Crawley and Duckett together, what should count as a good average opening stand between them in terms of runs ?

 

[Chin Music]

Sure but I asked you a direct question, since we talking about Crawley and Duckett together, what should count as a good average opening stand between them in terms of runs ?

They are doing ok, yes it's about 48 or so and yes batsmen get failures and get out early but I think it is a little too simplistic to talk about average partnerships and not what an individual player is doing. I would prefer to see a little less profligacy from both players as I've said above. If that does happen then there is every chance that goes a few runs higher, but I'm more concerned about the overall team score. Too often England get out for not very significant scores as per the 1st test and 2nd test first innings, when a whole load of players got in and got out. Sure, it wasn't significant in the final reckoning but it tends to get exposed against the better sides and it was brutally in India.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

They are doing ok, yes it's about 48 or so and yes batsmen get failures and get out early but I think it is a little too simplistic to talk about average partnerships and not what an individual player is doing. I would prefer to see a little less profligacy from both players as I've said above. If that does happen then there is every chance that goes a few runs higher, but I'm more concerned about the overall team score. Too often England get out for not very significant scores as per the 1st test and 2nd test first innings, when a whole load of players got in and got out. Sure, it wasn't significant in the final reckoning but it tends to get exposed against the better sides and it was brutally in India.

Duckett is averaging 46 since returning to the England team under Bazball , Crawley was England's highest runscorer in the home Ashes vs Australia and also in the Indian Test series, it doesn't get much bigger than that in terms of opposition


Right now Crawley and Duckett's opening partnership average is higher than the average partnership that Alastair Cook and Andrew Strauss had, Cook and Strauss are widely regarded as one of the best opening pairs England have had in the 21st century..

To suggest they should be under pressure is crazy , are they perfect ? No. But the opening partnership is the least of England's concerns.

The best thing about England in India was the openers, always getting the team good starts that the middle order failed to build on notably Stokes, Bairstow and Root .

 

[Chin Music]

Duckett is averaging 46 since returning to the England team under Bazball , Crawley was England's highest runscorer in the home Ashes vs Australia and also in the Indian Test series, it doesn't get much bigger than that in terms of opposition


Right now Crawley and Duckett's opening partnership average is higher than the average partnership that Alastair Cook and Andrew Strauss had, Cook and Strauss are widely regarded as one of the best opening pairs England have had in the 21st century..

To suggest they should be under pressure is crazy , are they perfect ? No. But the opening partnership is the least of England's concerns.

The best thing about England in India was the openers, always getting the team good starts that the middle order failed to build on notably Stokes, Bairstow and Root .

As I said in one of my earliest posts I can't see either getting dropped but I really want to see more scoreboard pressure, and that comes from all our players getting more regular tons and yet the likes of Root/Stokes have hardly filled their boots, especially the latter. Not all the England fans on here (and I know your SA) seem to agree with me on the lack of tons, but I really would rather see the team get to 450 more regularly. That this has not been done once in the series just gone let alone too much previously.

 

[Shady Slim]

Haha so dire. Take no wickets, oh he’s crap. Take all the wickets, oh well those wickets don’t count because those players are crap.

i mean you aren’t gonna see me pretending marcus harris is anything other than crap despite feasting on sri lanka that one time

 

[GIMH]

i mean you aren’t gonna see me pretending marcus harris is anything other than crap despite feasting on sri lanka that one time

Remember when Mark wood feasted on Australia