Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
They got plenty of swing at Kingston in the 2nd test last year...
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***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14
- Thread starter Prince EWS
- Start date
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Can imagine plenty of people will be angry about this:
1. That he cut off Tendulkar's final innings.
2. That his 4 wickets prevented a successful NZ 4th innings chase.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Southee's figures pre recall are like Jimmy Anderson's. Their overall stats are always going to suffer because of how poor they were early on. They're much better than that.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Mehs. we should've been able to deal with him illegal action or no illegal action, all he was doing was darting into the pads with a stacked leg-side.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
the overspin you can get by chucking makes a big difference IMO.
McCullum's slog sweep that went straight up is a perfect example. Noone else, even the leg spinner, was getting that much bounce off a full length.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Sure, Southee gets injured, but Roach misses more games due to injury and that was my point. Without delving into the fact that Roach has played a lot more against Bangladesh than Southee has to improve skew that statistics, Southee is a much better bowler now than his career average suggests. He was dropped at home two seasons ago for a couple of Tests and since his return he's taken 52 wickets @ 23. Roach absolutely was a better bowler than pre-2011/12 Tim Southee but I don't think he is anymore; Southee has improved immeasurably.
I think they're of pretty similar quality now when fully fit; Boult is too. Rampaul is good but a step back, so I definitely think New Zealand have the better new ball attack. West Indies have the better attack overall when everyone's fully fit because of their spin stocks, especially at home, but New Zealand's best bowlers are fit more often and their selectors are less silly which really closes the gap.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Oh, well this changes things.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
That's true, I didn't consider that. Certainly wasn't managing any sideways deviation though so I stand by my armchair spin expert comment. Bounce alone from a spinner should be manageable.
I have to admit I'm surprised by the findings though, he didn't look THAT bad. Guess this further confirms how lousy the naked eye is.
Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes but it's important to remember that Southee made his test debut when he was younger than Roach, and the exposure to the top level at such a tender age definitely hurt his development, so it's important not to just look at career stats. Since making his return to the NZ side on last year's WI tour, Southee has been excellent (averaging 23 with the ball at a sr of 50).
Roach has been similarly magnificent since 2011/12 with excellent performances against Australia and England as you noted. Personally I'd probably prefer to have a fully fit Roach in my side if I was forced to pick between the two of them, as his pace makes him a menacing prospect on any surface. And yes, Southee was superb in India and SL last year, but only when he was armed with a new ball. Once the shine wore off he was fairly manageable (as he was again during the 1st test at Dunedin). But I think all of Boult, Southee and Roach are in a similar class. Agree with PEWS that Rampaul is a tier down from those three.
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Athlai
Not Terrible
Southee was rushed to the Test team on the promise he had as a young U19 bowler. He arguably deserved to wear a Black Cap at that age but he certainly didn't deserve to keep his spot after his performances tailed away.
That said it very well may have turned him into the bowler he is today. Right at this very moment Southee is one of the better bowlers in the world, but he he took a good 4 years to really become that person.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
If he is a chucker then Kane definitely is and the excuse that he is just a part timer doesn't seem to make much sense.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I'm only surprised because he's already been reported once, gone through the remedial work and come back. I certainly don't think he looks any worse now than he did when he first returned.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
needs to get called.
Sohak Gazi also dubious, IMO.
but really, there's no way of knowing until tested.
Although the whole thing has been a bit ridiculous in that he was clearly chucking in India, it does give me a little more faith that bowlers can't so easily get away with chucking in a match and then keeping more strict during lab testing.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It seems like we've done this dance before.
BBC Sport - Cricket - West Indies spinner Shane Shillingford suspended by ICC (2010)
BBC SPORT | Cricket | International Teams | West Indies | Samuels issued with bowling ban (2008)
Sort it out ****s.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
He has been clocked at over 140km/h. I am not kidding.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
lol. call the Yankees IMO.