**Official** West Indies in England Thread

[garage flower]

That's not the Brian Lara I've been watching of late. Put ODIs aside, as those see the best of batsmen getting out to what would be considered as poor shots. In Tests over the last few months Lara has looked more determined than ever. He's undoubtedly in his prime right now and has looked goon in every Test innings on this tour so far, even 8 and 13.

Granted he played a horrible shot at Lord's, he's entitled to one or two, no?

Agreed generally, but I think he was too intent on dominating the attack in the first innings at Edgbaston. He was playing virtually a shot a ball and though it was great to watch it was perhaps a bit too aggressive given Lara's continuing (over) importance to the side.

 

[garage flower]

I don't think the appealing has been excessive. They have appealed a fair bit, but when you know you've got a chance, however minute, of taking a wicket, go ahead and appeal IMO. It's better than having a batsman out and not bothering to appeal.

Obviously, it's better than "under" appealing, which I think the Windies are sometimes guilty of, but some of the shouts off Giles were ludicrous - hit way outside off clearly playing shots, pitching way outside leg, a foot away from bat & gloves on bat/pad appeals.

Generally, the kind of thing that English commentators often criticise other - and particularly sub-continental - teams for.

 

[garage flower]

I think that anyone watching this England team can see things are a bit different from the past...the line up is pretty stable, they are playing the game with a bit of that killer instinct that is required...and the one factor that is in Englands favour compared to previous times is the play of Flintoff

I am not saying that England are in a position to win YET, but if improvement keeps on happening at this rate (and I am not just talking about results, just improvement in play) England will give Australia a run for their money...I think McGrath will be in for a bit of a shock if he thinks it will be 3-0

I don't think the batting has been sufficiently tested to gauge whether it will hold up in South Africa and then particularly against the Aussies.

I'll also be interested to see whether the killer instinct evaporates at the first whiff of an Australian cricketer, as has happened in the recent past.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Agreed generally, but I think he was too intent on dominating the attack in the first innings at Edgbaston. He was playing virtually a shot a ball and though it was great to watch it was perhaps a bit too aggressive given Lara's continuing (over) importance to the side.

But the aggressive batting is what got him 95 runs, not what got him out. He was out-thought.

 

[tooextracool]

And a part-time spinner bowling in those circumstances is easy stuff is it?

and have i said it was easy or that he didnt bowl well? you seem to make it a habit of misreading my posts because i clearly said that he was accurate but those 5 wickets that he got had more to do with rash strokeplay rather than brilliant bowling. he did what we all know he was capable of after his recent ODI performances...which was keep it tight.

 

[garage flower]

But the aggressive batting is what got him 95 runs, not what got him out. He was out-thought.

Still not sure he'd have played at it if he wasn't in all out attack mode.

I get the impression that he was unwilling to let any moral victories for the bowlers go unanswered, as with his risky hook off Harmison earlier after being troubled by a short ball.

 

[Revelation]

it was a terrible shot to say the least. he should have at least played out the Flintoff over, but Lara has a history of this. Apart from McGrath and perhaps Donald, no major front line bowler has gotten Lara consistently. Think back to the Aussie tour of the Windies last year. Bichel had Lara's number more often than not. In South Africa it was Nel etc etc. I think Lara does a hell of a job in underestimating the first and second change bowlers.

 

[steds]

Apart from McGrath and perhaps Donald, no major front line bowler has gotten Lara consistently.

Is Steve Harmison not a front line bowler. He dismissed Lara three times in seven innings in the West Indies, including both innings of the second test.

 

[marc71178]

And still Revelation can't credit Flintoff for his bowling in that over...

Next you'll have a go at the umpire for not giving him the benefit of the doubt!

 

[roseboy64]

Wavell Hinds is not a better batsman than Devon Smith. Smith has better technique and good temperament. You can't really fault Smith too much on this tour as he's not done a whole lot wrong. He played an impressive 45 in the 1st Test, then misjudged Giles, got a very tight LBW decision in the 2nd innings, was unlucky in his 2nd Test 1st innings dismissal and got a very good ball from Hoggard in the 2nd innings. In between he's looked very good.

I saw him play that hundred against England earlier this year and that convinced me that he's ready for the big show. Give him time.

Regarding Samuels, he's certainly not a better batsman than Devon Smith! You hold Samuels very highly I see, but he tends to not know the value of his wicket. Smith, if he does anything at all, doesn't generally throw away his innings.

I think Bravo's bowling has been good enough for him to warrant a place in the side and not as a specialist bowler. Therefore he would have to play as an allrounder in the number 6 spot. If Jacobs were in any sort of form, it would help Bravo immeasurably.

He may not have done anything wrong on this tour except get out early mor ethan once when West Indies needed to a good opening stand.Of course Devon Smith is better than Wavell Hinds but he's not making runs so you've got to drop him.If the WI were winning there wouldn't be a problem but they're not.Hinds was making runs before he got injured.

I said Samuels is a better bat than Dwayne Smith and Dwayne Bravo at the moment.Get the facts straight.

 

[Revelation]

Harmison certainly isn't showing that in this series but yes, he was the best on the Eng tour.

 

[superkingdave]

Harmison certainly isn't showing that in this series but yes, he was the best on the Eng tour.

Harmison has probably been the easiest to play so far because the extra pace makes the ball come on to the bat nicely on slow pitches - he needs to bowl more yorkers though - but with the Oval probably quick and rumours that Old Trafford will be quick (er) i'm sure he'll have a better time

 

[Tom Halsey]

I said Samuels is a better bat than Dwayne Smith and Dwayne Bravo at the moment.Get the facts straight.

I'd tend to advise you to get the 'facts' straight.

 

[Craig]

It was a superb spell of 4 balls that got him rattled then induced a shot that led to his demise.

But of course, we all know your opinion on Flintoff, so you can't come to terms with the fact he did anything right.

Or maybe it was a poor shot by Lara, ever considered that? It was not one ball that he had to play at.

Face it Marc, Flintoff could make five ducks in a row and you would still think he has done no wrong. I bet you even defended him when he averaged 5 with the bat in India in 2001.

 

[Swervy]

Or maybe it was a poor shot by Lara, ever considered that? It was not one ball that he had to play at.

Face it Marc, Flintoff could make five ducks in a row and you would still think he has done no wrong. I bet you even defended him when he averaged 5 with the bat in India in 2001.

craig..did you see the over in question.

 

[Timewell]

In the 2nd Innings, I thought Lara was certainly looking shaky when facing Flintoff. In the 1st innings, you may have missed it on TV, but I was at the ground....the ball before, Flintoff had a few "words" with Lara...he complained to the umpire...next ball...he was out. Flintoff obviously got to him, both with his bowling and mentally.

 

[Swervy]

In the 2nd Innings, I thought Lara was certainly looking shaky when facing Flintoff. In the 1st innings, you may have missed it on TV, but I was at the ground....the ball before, Flintoff had a few "words" with Lara...he complained to the umpire...next ball...he was out. Flintoff obviously got to him, both with his bowling and mentally.

i thought Lara had a word with the umpire regarding the sightscreen

 

[Timewell]

Was it about the sightscreen? It looked like he was complaining because of what Freddie said to him.

 

[Swervy]

Was it about the sightscreen? It looked like he was complaining because of what Freddie said to him.

well that was the impression i got...i may be wrong

 

[marc71178]

Or maybe it was a poor shot by Lara, ever considered that? It was not one ball that he had to play at.

But the over had him rattled so he did play - had it been any other bowler you'd have probably creditted him.

Face it Marc, Flintoff could make five ducks in a row and you would still think he has done no wrong. I bet you even defended him when he averaged 5 with the bat in India in 2001.

Erm, no I didn't, but unlike some people on here, I am able to change my opinion on players when I see them playing.