**Official** West Indies in England Thread

[Timewell]

I dunno yet to be honest...I think the Aussies are still way ahead of us...

 

[Tom Halsey]

Now that's where your comment goes wrong. With Lara at the crease, anything is possible.

Agreed - although it's highly unlikely he's going to stay there in reality.

He's played a number of poor shots to get out lately, which he needs to stop doing. The one just after he almost got yorked he was outfoxed, granted, but it was still a poor shot.

He needs to realize that sometimes you need to defend IMO.

 

[marc71178]

Umpires have been crap. The West Indies were in with a chance to save this test until Lara and Chanderpaul were given out. Shocking decisions.

Erm, which game were you watching?

For a start there was no way on Earth that they'd have saved that match on that pitch.

Secondly - Snicko suggests Lara was out, and the number of "shots" Chanderpaul "played" to avoid being dismissed at Taufel's end suggest he did well to last that long.

 

[marc71178]

Chanderpaul's decision was shocking because he was well forward and playing a stroke.

A very strange one if that's now a shot!

Where is it in the MCC Coaching manual?

 

[marc71178]

Gayles was also very tough but shown after being slowed down and replayed 5 o 6 times that he probably hit it.

Umpires are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the batsman. There is NO WAY the unpires could have been 100% certain that these decisions were out. Poor umpiring.

First time I've ever seen a top decision being described as poor umpiring.

Gayle hit it, didn't seem to make too much fuss himself.

The umpire picked up on the fact he hit it, and gave the catch - the fact it took TV several attempts to show he was right just shows to me how there's too much reliance on technology nowadays.

 

[marc71178]

Last time i checked, the umps didn't have Hawkeye installed in their brains.

Last time I checked Hawkeye wasn't anywhere near 100% accurate, hence it's not being used by the powers that be.

Gayle nicked it and i was never argueing that that was a poor decision.

So why claim that the umpire could never have told he hit it and should've given him the benefit of the doubt?

So far WI has had one decision that went for us; the bat pad that chanderpaul gave and was turned down. Compare that to Lara twice, Sarwan and Chanderpaul again. I don't see that as evening out.

It's Lara once - which Sarwan is this - I don't remember any where he's not been plum, and as for Chanderpaul - I could point out the many times he wasn't given to similar balls to the one that got him (where he "played" similar "shots"

In addition, England have had some very close LBWs given not out. It certainly seems as if WI are playing against 13 men, not 11.

This will be the SLS Liam was talking about.

 

[marc71178]

What about Flintoff and Trescothick in the first test?? LBW's that certainly should have been given out.

I must admit i don't remember seeing those - I mean I did only watch about all of that first Test when England were batting though, so I may have missed it.

 

[marc71178]

the one in the first test was a shocker though

When slowed down and viewed from multiple angles.

I must admit my initial reaction was that he'd hit it then - as was the umpires.

 

[Swervy]

When slowed down and viewed from multiple angles.

I must admit my initial reaction was that he'd hit it then - as was the umpires.

yeah, in retrospect it was a shocker, must admit when i saw it, i thought he was out.

 

[Swervy]

I dunno yet to be honest...I think the Aussies are still way ahead of us...

quite true...but England are developing quickly.

This team is still pretty inexperienced (and young) and so i think we should expect a very tough series for them in SA. That series might be the one which pushes them a lot closer to Australia (even if they dont win that series,the experience with be invaluable).

I think it was the ECB's objective to make England the number one team in the world by 2007. If the present 'curve' which England has followed over the last 12 months continues, I dont think they will be too far from that objective

 

[roseboy64]

Devon Smith doesn't look to be ready for international cricket and especially so in ODs.I hope Wavell Hinds gets a recall soon.Marlon Samuels too for that number 6 spot as Bravo isn't good enough yet to be there at Test level.Ganga would be number one on the list of openers not in the squad but he's proven repeatedly that he's not gonna cut it at Test level.Hinds isn't the best but right now he's better than Smith and so too is Samuels better than Dwayne Smith and Bravo(as a batsman).

 

[roseboy64]

IMO the WI lower order looked more capable of handling the English bowling than the batsmen.Why is it that WI can't put both the batting and the bowling together at the same time?Lack of experience.Without the option of going to play pro cricket abroad the WI performances have slipped.It wouldn't have been a bad decision by the WICB to do so if they had improved the FC game that they had going.They'v edecided to improve it but still with that improve ment they've made some bad desicions and its come too late.Englands bowlers are in their mid to late 20's which means they've had quite a few seasons of county cricket to develop.Not so with the WI.They just get thrown into the fire straight away once they show potential.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Devon Smith doesn't look to be ready for international cricket and especially so in ODs.I hope Wavell Hinds gets a recall soon.Marlon Samuels too for that number 6 spot as Bravo isn't good enough yet to be there at Test level.Ganga would be number one on the list of openers not in the squad but he's proven repeatedly that he's not gonna cut it at Test level.Hinds isn't the best but right now he's better than Smith and so too is Samuels better than Dwayne Smith and Bravo(as a batsman).

Wavell Hinds is not a better batsman than Devon Smith. Smith has better technique and good temperament. You can't really fault Smith too much on this tour as he's not done a whole lot wrong. He played an impressive 45 in the 1st Test, then misjudged Giles, got a very tight LBW decision in the 2nd innings, was unlucky in his 2nd Test 1st innings dismissal and got a very good ball from Hoggard in the 2nd innings. In between he's looked very good.

I saw him play that hundred against England earlier this year and that convinced me that he's ready for the big show. Give him time.

Regarding Samuels, he's certainly not a better batsman than Devon Smith! You hold Samuels very highly I see, but he tends to not know the value of his wicket. Smith, if he does anything at all, doesn't generally throw away his innings.

I think Bravo's bowling has been good enough for him to warrant a place in the side and not as a specialist bowler. Therefore he would have to play as an allrounder in the number 6 spot. If Jacobs were in any sort of form, it would help Bravo immeasurably.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

When slowed down and viewed from multiple angles.

I must admit my initial reaction was that he'd hit it then - as was the umpires.

His bat wasn't anywhere near it. I caught that on first glance.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Agreed - although it's highly unlikely he's going to stay there in reality.

He's played a number of poor shots to get out lately, which he needs to stop doing. The one just after he almost got yorked he was outfoxed, granted, but it was still a poor shot.

He needs to realize that sometimes you need to defend IMO.

That's not the Brian Lara I've been watching of late. Put ODIs aside, as those see the best of batsmen getting out to what would be considered as poor shots. In Tests over the last few months Lara has looked more determined than ever. He's undoubtedly in his prime right now and has looked goon in every Test innings on this tour so far, even 8 and 13.

Granted he played a horrible shot at Lord's, he's entitled to one or two, no?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I dunno yet to be honest...I think the Aussies are still way ahead of us...

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier (couldn't be bothered to check), but McGrath (the Glenn variety) was being interviewed and he was asked what he thinks the Ashes score will be next year. He said 3-0, but only because there's bound to be some rain about.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier (couldn't be bothered to check), but McGrath (the Glenn variety) was being interviewed and he was asked what he thinks the Ashes score will be next year. He said 3-0, but only because there's bound to be some rain about.

Yeah that damn rain will save the australians again!

 

[Craig]

Which is why it hit off-stump??

Rather it clipped it.

Regardless Bravo was better off playing it off the back foot.

 

[Craig]

As an Australian, I would say this is the first time for 15 years where it feels England are genuinely closing the gap on Australia....and i do think they deserve their current ranking of number two in the world.

I think in order for England to really challenge Australia there are just a couple of things that need sorting:
1. Giles is bowling really well at the moment,,but a second option spinner is essential, but looking around county cricket this is a big ask
2.Just a bit more depth in the pace department...I think Harmison (who is looking a bit tired at the moment, understandably),Hoggard and Flintoff are the backbone of what I would consider a very very good pace bowling attack.Anderson and Jones arent quite the finished articles yet (was quite impressed with Anderson this test,and I do think Jones has a lot of potential to be a very good test bowler)...but very quickly (bare(bear??? ) in mind the Ashes isnt too far away.There are some potential good bowlers around, but they wont be ready to take on Australia...it would be good for England to have one more fast bowler in reserve...an injury to Harmison for example would leave England quite weak again.
3.That number 3 position...I am not 100% certain that Butcher or Key are the men to do the job vs Australia...Butcher is very solid but I dont know whether he is a top class number 3...and Key may get exposed by some decent bowling. Anyone else around will not be very experienced,not ideal vs Australia.

in all though, if Australia were to play England right now, I think it would be a damned good game of test cricket

How about fielding, confidence (some idiot will say 'we hope tpo be competitive against Australia' which is like saying 'we can only beat everybody else, but we run away against the big boys'), lack of injuries.

Quite often England are beaten before they strap on a pad against Australia.

 

[Swervy]

How about fielding, confidence (some idiot will say 'we hope tpo be competitive against Australia' which is like saying 'we can only beat everybody else, but we run away against the big boys'), lack of injuries.

Quite often England are beaten before they strap on a pad against Australia.

Fielding: Engalnd are pretty good, although these simple catches being dropped would be punished by Australia..but anyone see Andersons catch!!!!!

Confidence: Confidence comes with victories, of which now England have, is it 8 out of 9.

Injuries: Of course no-one can predict this. Anything can happen to any team or player