***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Symonds' average is only slightly worse in List-A, which doesn't really tell the story since Symonds has been a much improved batsman. His strike rate is far better than Hodge's, which is almost as important as average in limited overs cricket. Centuries are nice, but Australia already has enough century makers in the squad.

So you think that because Symonds is a better quick30/40 batsman, who does not score hundreds, he's a better OD batsman than Hodge? Biased much?

4 runs is a HUGE difference in average. If Hodge continues at this pace and played as many OD innings as Symonds, he'd have a good 2000 runs more.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Warnie's still sore but wants to play

I don't think that's a good move on Warne's part. He's hardly got to worry about losing his spot, and the series is hardly in the air like McGrath with the Ashes. He should, I reckon, sit out this next test, let MacGill and Bracken have a go, and then come back fitter. If he wants to last however many more years, he's not going to do himself any favours by playing when he's stiff (cue joke).

He's after the record amount of wickets in a calendar year - not playing would be a big blow to his chances.

 

[age_master]

He's after the record amount of wickets in a calendar year - not playing would be a big blow to his chances.

yeah he will play. its probably the last time he will get to play against Lara too - he wouldn't want to miss that.

 

[age_master]

So you think that because Symonds is a better quick30/40 batsman, who does not score hundreds, he's a better OD batsman than Hodge? Biased much?

4 runs is a HUGE difference in average. If Hodge continues at this pace and played as many OD innings as Symonds, he'd have a good 2000 runs more.

until recently Symonds had been batting further down the order than Hodge i think - he also has much better batsmen coming in ahead of him for QLD.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

yeah he will play. its probably the last time he will get to play against Lara too - he wouldn't want to miss that.

Gosh. You'd think he'd be tired of being manhandled by now.

 

[Top_Cat]

Gosh. You'd think he'd be tired of being manhandled by now.

We're talking about on-field activities here, mate. Please try to stay on topic.

 

[Shahid_Afridi_6]

He's after the record amount of wickets in a calendar year - not playing would be a big blow to his chances.

Which I very much doubt he'll get if Macgill plays.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

We're talking about on-field activities here, mate. Please try to stay on topic.

Waw. That's about as bad as me discussing how Simon Jones makes the soft old ball come alive.

 

[Mister Wright]

I have to agree.. I thought he had a touch of dirty slogger in him to be honest, but I can see now that hes got plenty of natural ability about him.


I also agree with waiting a bit longer to put players into the Test team. I love Clarke as much as the next person, but theres no doubt a couple more seasons in our domestic comp would have done him the world of good.
Just seeing the different attitude that Hussey and Hodge have shown makes me think we should take the quality of experiance more seriously. Im not saying we should wait until their 30, but just not throw them in at the deep end in their early twenties, heap praise and AB medals on them, and expect them to perform like a veteran.

Very good point. It is also interesting to note that Clarke is the first AB medalist to be dropped the season after they won the medal, and I think Martyn is the first Test Player of the year to be dropped the season after winning the award...interesting.

 

[Mister Wright]

So you think that because Symonds is a better quick30/40 batsman, who does not score hundreds, he's a better OD batsman than Hodge? Biased much?

4 runs is a HUGE difference in average. If Hodge continues at this pace and played as many OD innings as Symonds, he'd have a good 2000 runs more.

Symonds plays a different role to Hodge in ODIs though. Often earlier in his career he was sent in as a lower middle order batsman to score quickly or sent in at 3 in a 'pinch-hitter' role. He is also an allrounder so a few runs less in average is ok, because he makes up for it with his all-round ability.

 

[Top_Cat]

Very good point. It is also interesting to note that Clarke is the first AB medalist to be dropped the season after they won the medal, and I think Martyn is the first Test Player of the year to be dropped the season after winning the award...interesting.

Colin Miller?

 

[ClownSymonds]

Symonds plays a different role to Hodge in ODIs though. Often earlier in his career he was sent in as a lower middle order batsman to score quickly or sent in at 3 in a 'pinch-hitter' role. He is also an allrounder so a few runs less in average is ok, because he makes up for it with his all-round ability.

Exactly. The role that Hodge plays is played better by the guys currently in the squad, which is why Hodge has never played an ODI. The fact that Andrew Symonds is an invaluable member of the team is highlighted by his consistent performance (lately he received a man of the series award against England) and 127 ODI caps.

 

[howardj]

While not strictly true, I don't see the problem in a player at the age of 30-31 coming in and giving 4 or 5 years of consistent service than being set back by picking a player at the age of 22-23 who isn't ready for test cricket and having them dropped after a year and a bit when they could come in as a well performed 25 or 26 year old and provent themselves thoroughly at domestic level.

Im pretty glad that you, Linda and Aussie are not Australian selectors . With a talented youngster, getting dropped doesn't necessarily 'set them back'. For instance, does anyone think it's wrong that guys like Justin Langer, Matt Hayden, Ricky Ponting, Michael Slater, Damien Martyn, Steve Waugh, Shane Warne, Glenn McGrath etc were all picked in their early 20's? Those guys were not really ready for Test cricket, in that they all got dropped fairly early in their careers.

History shows though, upon their return to the Test side, they were pretty damn good - they knew what top level cricket was all about. I would much rather a player take that path, than picking a 30/31 year old debutant. It's hard to name any newcomers of that age who have gone on to give '4 or 5 years of consistent service'. Guys who go on to be outstanding Test players have generally debuted fairly young. That they are exposed to International cricket at a young age is a help, not a hindrance, to their development.

 

[Slats4ever]

Colin Miller?

Colin Miller won rookie of the year at the ripe old age of a billion. not cricketer of the year.

 

[Top_Cat]

Colin Miller won rookie of the year at the ripe old age of a billion. not cricketer of the year.

Wrong.

http://www.cricket.com.au/?s=allanbordermedal

Honour Roll

ALLAN BORDER MEDAL

2000 - Glenn McGrath
2001 - Stephen Waugh
2002 - Matthew Hayden
2003 - Adam Gilchrist
2004 - Ricky Ponting
2005 - Michael Clarke

BRADMAN YOUNG CRICKETER OF THE YEAR
2000 - Brett Lee (NSW)
2001 - Nathan Bracken (NSW)
2002 - Shane Watson (Tas)
2003 - Nathan Hauritz (Qld)
2004 - Shaun Tait (SA)
2005 - Mark Cosgrove (SA)

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR
2000 - Shane Warne
2001 - Glenn McGrath
2002 - Ricky Ponting
2003 - Adam Gilchrist
2004 - Adam Gilchrist
2005 - Andrew Symonds

STATE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
2000 - Darren Lehmann (SA)
2001 - Darren Lehmann (SA)
2002 - Darren Lehmann (SA)
2003 - Martin Love (Qld)
2004 - Simon Katich (NSW)
2005 - Andy Bichel (Qld)

TEST PLAYER OF THE YEAR
2000 - Glenn McGrath
2001 - Colin Miller
2002 - Matthew Hayden
2003 - Ricky Ponting
2004 - Ricky Ponting
2005 - Damien Martyn

WOMEN'S INTERNATIONAL CRICKETER OF THE YEAR
2002 - Karen Rolton (SA)
2003 - Karen Rolton (SA)
2004 - Cathryn Fitzpatrick (Vic)
2005 - Karen Rolton (SA)

 

[irfan]

Where does Test player for year 2005 ply his trade now? quite tragic..... considering the revolving door that is the Aus middle order

 

[aussie]

Warnie's still sore but wants to play

I don't think that's a good move on Warne's part. He's hardly got to worry about losing his spot, and the series is hardly in the air like McGrath with the Ashes. He should, I reckon, sit out this next test, let MacGill and Bracken have a go, and then come back fitter. If he wants to last however many more years, he's not going to do himself any favours by playing when he's stiff (cue joke).

word. Warne, Ponting & selectors if they know his injury is serious he should be rested , after all the series is already won & we would like to preserve Warne for as long as possible..

 

[aussie]

Guys who go on to be outstanding Test players have generally debuted fairly young. That they are exposed to International cricket at a young age is a help, not a hindrance, to their development.

Yes i agree that the fact that Pup has been exposed to test level so early will help him, i'm not denying that. But now he can go back to FC & iron out his little technical flaws & i have no doubt he will come back a better batsman...

 

[Linda]

Im pretty glad that you, Linda and Aussie are not Australian selectors . With a talented youngster, getting dropped doesn't necessarily 'set them back'. For instance, does anyone think it's wrong that guys like Justin Langer, Matt Hayden, Ricky Ponting, Michael Slater, Damien Martyn, Steve Waugh, Shane Warne, Glenn McGrath etc were all picked in their early 20's? Those guys were not really ready for Test cricket, in that they all got dropped fairly early in their careers.

History shows though, upon their return to the Test side, they were pretty damn good - they knew what top level cricket was all about. I would much rather a player take that path, than picking a 30/31 year old debutant. It's hard to name any newcomers of that age who have gone on to give '4 or 5 years of consistent service'. Guys who go on to be outstanding Test players have generally debuted fairly young. That they are exposed to International cricket at a young age is a help, not a hindrance, to their development.

Im glad Im not a selector either...

For the record, I dont think any of us were talking about waiting until players were 30 before playing them, thatd be crazy (providing you had the choice) as youd have wasted what could have been prime years in their careers. And if you bring McGrath and Warne into the arguement, were going to lose every time because they are freaks, lets face it.
I just feel that experiance at the domestic level isnt valued enough, and that One Day cricket provides enough international exposure for young players. For example, I would think Phil Jacques time is pretty much perfect right now. He's proved himself at domestic level, has played 60 odd games with a very good average and is the ripe age of 26. Of course, now its just a matter of booting one of the openers

As for Damien Martyn, I always read he almost quit the game after the attention he got from being the next big thing all went sour with his form, and the huge high and lows he got from being so young with expectations so high. But thats another story.

 

[Dasa]

I was just looking back at Tests the Windies have played at Adelaide, and noticed that the last time they played there Colin Miller took 10 wickets, and the time before that Bevan took 10...Symonds must think he's in with a chance of a big haul.